Man starved after benefits were cut

MALNUTRITION: Mark Wood

MALNUTRITION: Mark Wood

First published in News
Last updated
The Oxford Times: Photograph of the Author by

A "VULNERABLE and fragile" man starved to death four months after most of his benefits were stopped and he was left with just £40 a week to survive on.

Atos Healthcare – which assesses peoples’ ability to work on behalf of the Government’s Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) – assessed that 44-year-old Mark Wood, from Bampton, was fit to work.

But at an inquest into his death, Oxford Coroner's Court heard testimony that Mr Wood was far from fit to hold down a job.

Weighing just 5st 8lbs when he died of malnutrition in August last year, Mr Wood had obsessive compulsive disorder, Aspergers syndrome, phobias of food, pollution, paint fumes, and social situations, and cognitive behavioural problems.

His GP Nicolas Ward told yesterday’s proceedings: “He was an extremely vulnerable and fragile individual who was coping with life.

“Something pushed him or affected him in the time before he died and the only thing I can put my finger on is the pressure he felt he was under when his benefits were removed.”

Dr Ward, from Bampton Medical Practice, said he had not been contacted by either Atos or DWP about Mr Wood’s medical history, and revealed that if they had asked for his professional opinion he would have said Mr Wood was unfit for work.

Mr Wood had been receiving housing benefit, employment and support allowance, and disability living allowance of £40 a week and had been living independently since 2006.

But in January last year Atos Healthcare assessed that Mr Wood was healthy and able to work. Following its assessment, in about April last year, Mr Wood’s housing benefits and employment support allowance were stopped by the DWP, leaving just the disability allowance.

The inquest heard he was not able to pay his rent of utility bills.

Mr Wood’s family claim their “gentle and sweet” son and brother would still be alive if his benefits had not been stopped.

His sister Cathie Wood, 48, from North Oxford, told the Oxford Mail: “Atos are completely to blame. If they had not evaluated him as normal he would have carried on in his own way and would not have died last summer.”

His mother Jill Gant, from Abingdon, explained to the coroner that the family only found out Mr Wood did not have any money a few weeks before he died and sent him £250.

Ms Wood said: “By then it was too late, he was so fragile and unstable. We didn’t realise how bad things were.

“He found it difficult to accept help from his family because he tried to live independently so he gave the money away.

“He had a lot of problems, but he was very gentle and sweet.”

At the inquest, Mrs Gant said: “I think he died of the severe effects of malnutrition, but there were precipitating causes.

“Extreme stress and lack of money caused by the removal of his benefits led to his eating problems, and malnutrition led to his death.”

Between April – around the time his benefits stopped – and his death his body mass index plunged from 14.1 to about 11.5. A BMI of 18.5 to 24.9 is considered healthy.

Pathologist Clare Verrill told the court a BMI below 13 could kill a man but a cause of death could not be given because his body had decomposed. Mr Wood had last been seen alive on July 29 but his body was not discovered until August 9.

Oxfordshire Coroner Darren Salter gave a narrative verdict at the inquest. He said: “Mr Wood had an eating disorder and food phobia. It is likely that this caused or contributed to his death as he was markedly underweight and malnourished.”

He added: “I accept the evidence about something pushing him over the edge heard by the GP Mr Ward.

On the other hand we do know cash was provided prior to death, but because of his phobias he didn’t use that cash to buy food.”

His family are meeting Oxford West and Abingdon MP Nicola Blackwood next Friday to try to find out why he was declared fit for work. Ms Wood said they may consider legal proceedings.

Atos Healthcare spokeswoman Tessa David said: “Our thoughts are with the family of Mr Wood at this difficult time.

“We carry out the Government’s Work Capability Assessment as professionally and compassionately as possible.”

DWP spokesman Ann Rimell said: “A decision on whether someone is well enough to work is taken following a thorough assessment and after consideration of all the supporting medical evidence from the claimant’s GP or medical specialist.”

DWP figures show that between October 2010 and March 2013, more than 1,000 people across Oxfordshire stopped receiving employment and support allowance benefits.

Suzy Drohan, joint manager of Barton's Oxfordshire Welfare Rights, said: “It is terrible, I’m really concerned about how Mr Wood has fallen through the cracks.”

Between January 2012 and January this year Oxfordshire Welfare Rights took 312 cases to tribunal appeals against DWP decisions, and 281 were successful.

What ATOS does

  • Atos undertakes benefits assessments for the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) called work capability assessments – most people are re-assessed once a year. The DWP then makes a decision based on Atos recommendations.
  • Over the last few weeks protests have been held outside more than 100 Atos centres including its Oxford offices in St Aldate’s.
  • Last week Atos revealed it wanted to quit its £500m Government contract early because of threats made to its staff.
  • Yesterday, it was reported in several national newspapers that Atos staff have been told to leave all current employment and support allowance claimants on their benefit, without repeat medical checks, until another company can be found to do assessments.

Comments (60)

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9:07am Fri 28 Feb 14

EMBOX2 says...

I hate this "our thoughts are with x" thing that is trotted out by all and sundry when someone dies. Its a load of tosh.
I hate this "our thoughts are with x" thing that is trotted out by all and sundry when someone dies. Its a load of tosh. EMBOX2
  • Score: 119

9:29am Fri 28 Feb 14

Oxonian says...

"DWP spokesman Ann Rimell said: “A decision on whether someone is well enough to work is taken following a thorough assessment and after consideration of all the supporting medical evidence from the claimant’s GP or medical specialist.”

Yet the GP says he was never consulted.

Another tragic example of this Government's callous treatment of the most vulnerable people in society.
"DWP spokesman Ann Rimell said: “A decision on whether someone is well enough to work is taken following a thorough assessment and after consideration of all the supporting medical evidence from the claimant’s GP or medical specialist.” Yet the GP says he was never consulted. Another tragic example of this Government's callous treatment of the most vulnerable people in society. Oxonian
  • Score: 339

9:45am Fri 28 Feb 14

Steve Magee says...

This morally corrupt government do not give a **** about the weak, poor and the vulnerable in society.

In Victorian times, being poor was considered a crime, it would appear that our present government also shares that view.

How long will it be before David Cameron and his cronies bring back workhouses?

David Cameron and his multimillionaire cabinet chums have no idea what it is like to live in the real world.
This morally corrupt government do not give a **** about the weak, poor and the vulnerable in society. In Victorian times, being poor was considered a crime, it would appear that our present government also shares that view. How long will it be before David Cameron and his cronies bring back workhouses? David Cameron and his multimillionaire cabinet chums have no idea what it is like to live in the real world. Steve Magee
  • Score: 305

9:57am Fri 28 Feb 14

Dilligaf2010 says...

I can speak from experience that ATOS don't give a **** about people, I'm fighting for myself at the moment, and it's not helping my mental state!
I can speak from experience that ATOS don't give a **** about people, I'm fighting for myself at the moment, and it's not helping my mental state! Dilligaf2010
  • Score: 184

10:12am Fri 28 Feb 14

Myron Blatz says...

Have you ever noticed how successive governments - and especially this Tory-led Coalition - always seem to take it oit on those most vulnerable and least likely to stand up for their rights? Have you also noticed that although trade unions always go on about supporting their Members, they too go 'quiet' about the sick, disabled and those who need the Country's support. As for the French-owned Atos company, hired by Ian 'lives on another planet' Duncan-Smith to drive down those claiming disability? We can only feel immense empathy for people such as the late Mark Wood and his Family. People are now treated (or not!) as 'statistics' via computer-generated munbo-jumbo, rather than as individuals and human beings, with national and local government bureacracies justifying their own existance and salaries by he tired and testy 'tick boxes' systems, driving down every cost but their own wages and pensions, to strive for ever-greater efficiencies, lower costs of the 'product' being 'supplied' ...... and totally regardless of human need, if such doesn't fit the eco-statistical 'model' being employed. One government wastes public money on bailing out the banks and he wealthy .... and the next administration decides to claw-back as much as possible to keep the wealthy happy and not be seen to support the poorer members, the sick and those who need government support, in our very unequal society in which we live. Sadly, for most of us we don't really appreciate such gross inadequacies, until - like happened to Mr Wood - someone we know, or a family member is affected.
Have you ever noticed how successive governments - and especially this Tory-led Coalition - always seem to take it oit on those most vulnerable and least likely to stand up for their rights? Have you also noticed that although trade unions always go on about supporting their Members, they too go 'quiet' about the sick, disabled and those who need the Country's support. As for the French-owned Atos company, hired by Ian 'lives on another planet' Duncan-Smith to drive down those claiming disability? We can only feel immense empathy for people such as the late Mark Wood and his Family. People are now treated (or not!) as 'statistics' via computer-generated munbo-jumbo, rather than as individuals and human beings, with national and local government bureacracies justifying their own existance and salaries by he tired and testy 'tick boxes' systems, driving down every cost but their own wages and pensions, to strive for ever-greater efficiencies, lower costs of the 'product' being 'supplied' ...... and totally regardless of human need, if such doesn't fit the eco-statistical 'model' being employed. One government wastes public money on bailing out the banks and he wealthy .... and the next administration decides to claw-back as much as possible to keep the wealthy happy and not be seen to support the poorer members, the sick and those who need government support, in our very unequal society in which we live. Sadly, for most of us we don't really appreciate such gross inadequacies, until - like happened to Mr Wood - someone we know, or a family member is affected. Myron Blatz
  • Score: 173

10:29am Fri 28 Feb 14

Interestedinoxford says...

Incredibly sad story. Not sure how the ATOS people can sleep at night. In fact how could anyone with any compassion even work for them.
Incredibly sad story. Not sure how the ATOS people can sleep at night. In fact how could anyone with any compassion even work for them. Interestedinoxford
  • Score: 178

10:29am Fri 28 Feb 14

SayWhat??? says...

Sadly I see stories such as this daily in the volunteer work I do with an online charity. We are a very small, very secret charity, who raise money to help those left crippled by the cuts and draconian systems now in place, and also those families who are actually working but not earning enough to cover their living expenses. This story here is yet another example of a corrupt and uncaring government only concerned with helping themselves and others at the top. When will the public wake up and see that all of the sensational stories about 'mum with 10 kids' and 'benefits street' etc etc etc are all there to pull focus away from the real atrocities in the system?

We are all one accident, one illness, one redundancy away from needing support. Just one moment is all it takes.
Sadly I see stories such as this daily in the volunteer work I do with an online charity. We are a very small, very secret charity, who raise money to help those left crippled by the cuts and draconian systems now in place, and also those families who are actually working but not earning enough to cover their living expenses. This story here is yet another example of a corrupt and uncaring government only concerned with helping themselves and others at the top. When will the public wake up and see that all of the sensational stories about 'mum with 10 kids' and 'benefits street' etc etc etc are all there to pull focus away from the real atrocities in the system? We are all one accident, one illness, one redundancy away from needing support. Just one moment is all it takes. SayWhat???
  • Score: 206

10:32am Fri 28 Feb 14

hatofthecat says...

If the proven useless past Labour government hadn't created & ignored the problem of mass bogus disability claiming the need to adopt a rigorous checking system would not have occurred. The "real world" is there is no endless pot of cash so where would you have the resources focused ? On the anyone who makes a claim or on those whose claim can be proven. Those who think benefits should be handed out without real checks are more motivated by a the twisted logic of failed socialism than any genuine concern for the individuals who simply make rather convenient tools for their feeble minded propaganda.
If the proven useless past Labour government hadn't created & ignored the problem of mass bogus disability claiming the need to adopt a rigorous checking system would not have occurred. The "real world" is there is no endless pot of cash so where would you have the resources focused ? On the anyone who makes a claim or on those whose claim can be proven. Those who think benefits should be handed out without real checks are more motivated by a the twisted logic of failed socialism than any genuine concern for the individuals who simply make rather convenient tools for their feeble minded propaganda. hatofthecat
  • Score: -240

10:34am Fri 28 Feb 14

Interestedinoxford says...

I forgot to say that this thing of cutting benefits of genuine claimants is not new. In 2000 my brother died from heart disease aged 40, a few months after being declared fit for work. An appeal heard after his death restored his benefit...helped to pay for his headstone.
I forgot to say that this thing of cutting benefits of genuine claimants is not new. In 2000 my brother died from heart disease aged 40, a few months after being declared fit for work. An appeal heard after his death restored his benefit...helped to pay for his headstone. Interestedinoxford
  • Score: 102

10:40am Fri 28 Feb 14

SayWhat??? says...

Of course a claim should be proven. However, as was stated by this mans GP at the inquest, no request for information on his patient was ever made. This is a familiar story with ATOS - a french IT company, keeping a tick list on a number of complex illnesses and disabilities, who have themselves now said that the work capability assessments are not fit for purpose, and are in fact trying to leave the contract early!!! Allow GPs, who see their patients daily and know and understand the disabilities they have, do the relevant checks. Over 11,000 people found 'fit for work' by ATOS have subsequently died within 6 weeks of the assessment - either killed by their illness, or from taking their own life due to extreme mental health conditions all made worse by the stress and anxiety of the ridiculous testing...

"the moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; those who are in the shadows of life; the sick, the needy and the handicapped. "
~Last Speech of Hubert H. Humphrey
Of course a claim should be proven. However, as was stated by this mans GP at the inquest, no request for information on his patient was ever made. This is a familiar story with ATOS - a french IT company, keeping a tick list on a number of complex illnesses and disabilities, who have themselves now said that the work capability assessments are not fit for purpose, and are in fact trying to leave the contract early!!! Allow GPs, who see their patients daily and know and understand the disabilities they have, do the relevant checks. Over 11,000 people found 'fit for work' by ATOS have subsequently died within 6 weeks of the assessment - either killed by their illness, or from taking their own life due to extreme mental health conditions all made worse by the stress and anxiety of the ridiculous testing... "the moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; those who are in the shadows of life; the sick, the needy and the handicapped. " ~Last Speech of Hubert H. Humphrey SayWhat???
  • Score: 150

11:02am Fri 28 Feb 14

PDplum says...

he gave the money away meant for buying food. How is that anyones fault but his own?
he gave the money away meant for buying food. How is that anyones fault but his own? PDplum
  • Score: -242

11:08am Fri 28 Feb 14

Dilligaf2010 says...

PDplum wrote:
he gave the money away meant for buying food. How is that anyones fault but his own?
You clearly have no understanding of mental health problems
[quote][p][bold]PDplum[/bold] wrote: he gave the money away meant for buying food. How is that anyones fault but his own?[/p][/quote]You clearly have no understanding of mental health problems Dilligaf2010
  • Score: 224

11:12am Fri 28 Feb 14

hatofthecat says...

"Allow GPs, who see their patients daily and know and understand the disabilities they have, do the relevant checks" - and there laid bare is the old standby of the "sick note" culture. There could not possibly be a less effective method of reducing false claimants. No checks will ever be stress free but they are definitely required.

BTW Humphrey was of such "moral" fibre that he supported Johnson's prosecution of the war in Vietnam rather than jeapordise his own political career... not so moral after all.
"Allow GPs, who see their patients daily and know and understand the disabilities they have, do the relevant checks" - and there laid bare is the old standby of the "sick note" culture. There could not possibly be a less effective method of reducing false claimants. No checks will ever be stress free but they are definitely required. BTW Humphrey was of such "moral" fibre that he supported Johnson's prosecution of the war in Vietnam rather than jeapordise his own political career... not so moral after all. hatofthecat
  • Score: -91

11:18am Fri 28 Feb 14

SayWhat??? says...

His mother Jill Gant, from Abingdon, explained to the coroner that the family only found out Mr Wood did not have any money a few weeks before he died and sent him £250.

Ms Wood said: “By then it was too late, he was so fragile and unstable. We didn’t realise how bad things were.

“He found it difficult to accept help from his family because he tried to live independently so he gave the money away.

“He had a lot of problems, but he was very gentle and sweet.”

At the inquest, Mrs Gant said: “I think he died of the severe effects of malnutrition, but there were precipitating causes.

“Extreme stress and lack of money caused by the removal of his benefits led to his eating problems, and malnutrition led to his death.”


Even if he had of bought food with the money his MOTHER gave him (not his benefits, a gift from his mum!!! See whats wrong there???) it came too late. A few weeks before he died - malnutrition would of already set in and it would of been very hard to recover from the stress and malnutrition already caused. In any case, it should not of fallen on his Mother to give him cash, if his benefits had never been stopped then none of it would of happened.

If you are sick, disabled or unable to find work, then the government and the wider community, have a responsibility to support you. Morally, as humans we should accept this and want to help. If his doctor had of been contacted regarding his various disabilities his benefit would never have been removed, and this outcome could of been avoided.
His mother Jill Gant, from Abingdon, explained to the coroner that the family only found out Mr Wood did not have any money a few weeks before he died and sent him £250. Ms Wood said: “By then it was too late, he was so fragile and unstable. We didn’t realise how bad things were. “He found it difficult to accept help from his family because he tried to live independently so he gave the money away. “He had a lot of problems, but he was very gentle and sweet.” At the inquest, Mrs Gant said: “I think he died of the severe effects of malnutrition, but there were precipitating causes. “Extreme stress and lack of money caused by the removal of his benefits led to his eating problems, and malnutrition led to his death.” Even if he had of bought food with the money his MOTHER gave him (not his benefits, a gift from his mum!!! See whats wrong there???) it came too late. A few weeks before he died - malnutrition would of already set in and it would of been very hard to recover from the stress and malnutrition already caused. In any case, it should not of fallen on his Mother to give him cash, if his benefits had never been stopped then none of it would of happened. If you are sick, disabled or unable to find work, then the government and the wider community, have a responsibility to support you. Morally, as humans we should accept this and want to help. If his doctor had of been contacted regarding his various disabilities his benefit would never have been removed, and this outcome could of been avoided. SayWhat???
  • Score: 135

11:37am Fri 28 Feb 14

AylesburyOx says...

Sadly it was only a matter of time before a tragedy like this happended. I see at least 2 cases like this a week in my day job; people who should not be deemed 'work ready' but are having their benefits cut and being put back into the DWP system because they have 2 arms, 2 legs and a head. It's not right, should not happen and cannot be allowed to happen again.

We live in one of the richest and most affluent counties in England yet the gap between the rich and and the poor has never been wider. Mr. Cameron should be absolutely ashamed of himself but the sad fact remains that he probably won't even be made aware of Mark Wood and the awful way his life ended.
Sadly it was only a matter of time before a tragedy like this happended. I see at least 2 cases like this a week in my day job; people who should not be deemed 'work ready' but are having their benefits cut and being put back into the DWP system because they have 2 arms, 2 legs and a head. It's not right, should not happen and cannot be allowed to happen again. We live in one of the richest and most affluent counties in England yet the gap between the rich and and the poor has never been wider. Mr. Cameron should be absolutely ashamed of himself but the sad fact remains that he probably won't even be made aware of Mark Wood and the awful way his life ended. AylesburyOx
  • Score: 120

11:39am Fri 28 Feb 14

bart-on simpson says...

A very tragic story - and surely no need for the OM to delve into the man's mental health issues, his family, and then connect it to a personal assessment of employability which looks seriously out of kilter with any sense of fairness in this case.
A very tragic story - and surely no need for the OM to delve into the man's mental health issues, his family, and then connect it to a personal assessment of employability which looks seriously out of kilter with any sense of fairness in this case. bart-on simpson
  • Score: -45

1:31pm Fri 28 Feb 14

southoxonman says...

I cannot conceive how this poor mans family "didn’t realise how bad things were" surely they knew about his mental state ?? It's easy to blame ATOS but as individuals we should shoulder some responsibility in ensuring our own familes are safe and not rely on the government to do it...
I cannot conceive how this poor mans family "didn’t realise how bad things were" surely they knew about his mental state ?? It's easy to blame ATOS but as individuals we should shoulder some responsibility in ensuring our own familes are safe and not rely on the government to do it... southoxonman
  • Score: -35

1:57pm Fri 28 Feb 14

Inided says...

At the end it says:
"Yesterday, it was reported in several national newspapers that Atos staff have been told to leave all current employment and support allowance claimants on their benefit, without repeat medical checks, until another company can be found to do assessments."
Unfortunately this is not quite the case as they recently stopped my ESA and housing benefits too. I suffer with diabeties, epilepsy, juvenile rheumatoid arthiritis, coeliac disease, autism, social phobia, multiple anxiety problems and depression and somehow scored 0 points on my medical - that means perfect health.
A bigger problem though is the new appeal procedures that were introduced in 2013. Upon receiving notification that all of my income was stopped I visited citizens advice bureau to get help appealing the decision, this is when I found out that I can't simply appeal, but have to send off a letter of "mandatory reconsideration" to the DWP first. What's this mean? Basically it means that for 4-6weeks (if they sort it when they say) I'm left with no income whatsoever while someone in an office somewhere decides whether or not I'm allowed to appeal. In the meantime, I can't get hardship payments as the mandatory reconsideration counts me as not currently in receipt of benefits and the only other way for me to receive money is by applying for JSA, which I'm ineligible for because I'm not fit enough to start work, one of the conditions in the jobseekers agreement.
The medical professionals that ATOS hire to perform the assessments seem to have forgotten their duty of care, or have simply been told that they have a bigger duty to their employers profits. The sooner that the contract is handed over the better, preferably to a company or organisation that primarily focuses on the healthcare industry rather than asking yet another IT company to judge human health.
At the end it says: "Yesterday, it was reported in several national newspapers that Atos staff have been told to leave all current employment and support allowance claimants on their benefit, without repeat medical checks, until another company can be found to do assessments." Unfortunately this is not quite the case as they recently stopped my ESA and housing benefits too. I suffer with diabeties, epilepsy, juvenile rheumatoid arthiritis, coeliac disease, autism, social phobia, multiple anxiety problems and depression and somehow scored 0 points on my medical - that means perfect health. A bigger problem though is the new appeal procedures that were introduced in 2013. Upon receiving notification that all of my income was stopped I visited citizens advice bureau to get help appealing the decision, this is when I found out that I can't simply appeal, but have to send off a letter of "mandatory reconsideration" to the DWP first. What's this mean? Basically it means that for 4-6weeks (if they sort it when they say) I'm left with no income whatsoever while someone in an office somewhere decides whether or not I'm allowed to appeal. In the meantime, I can't get hardship payments as the mandatory reconsideration counts me as not currently in receipt of benefits and the only other way for me to receive money is by applying for JSA, which I'm ineligible for because I'm not fit enough to start work, one of the conditions in the jobseekers agreement. The medical professionals that ATOS hire to perform the assessments seem to have forgotten their duty of care, or have simply been told that they have a bigger duty to their employers profits. The sooner that the contract is handed over the better, preferably to a company or organisation that primarily focuses on the healthcare industry rather than asking yet another IT company to judge human health. Inided
  • Score: 82

2:09pm Fri 28 Feb 14

LauraCrean says...

PDplum wrote:
he gave the money away meant for buying food. How is that anyones fault but his own?
He had mental health problems. As someone who suffers I can completely understand. He had food phobias and aspergers - you don't know anything!
[quote][p][bold]PDplum[/bold] wrote: he gave the money away meant for buying food. How is that anyones fault but his own?[/p][/quote]He had mental health problems. As someone who suffers I can completely understand. He had food phobias and aspergers - you don't know anything! LauraCrean
  • Score: 97

2:26pm Fri 28 Feb 14

janxh54 says...

Another tragic story linked to the heartless tick box unfit for purpose assessment system thousands are repeatedly forced to endure. How on earth could this poor man ever be considered fit for work ?
Once again Atos did not do their job properly and contact the GP ... possibly as they would have had to pay for this info and it would eat into the profits.!!
The person that did the assessment , most likely as in all of mine, a nurse, should be investigated and if found to have provided false information, aka lied, as we know fine well they do, struck off. They do after all surely have a duty of care as per the hippocratic oath, and falsifying infotrmation is a sackable offence ... of do they ignore the oath once they take the Atos shilling ??
The decision maker, and bear in mind these are lowly DWP workers and are not medically trained, if found to have made a wrong judgement should be sacked on the grounds of gross incompetence.
More and more we are seeing such tragic stories, and there seems little or no redress for the poor souls involved.
Thus far as per the DWP own figures "between January 2011 and November 2011, some 10,600 claims ended and
a date of death was recorded within six weeks of the claim ending"

Suspicious they they now refuse to give us the true upto date figures despite numerous FOI requests

http://blacktriangle
campaign.org/2012/10
/04/10600-sick-disab
led-people-died-last
-year-within-six-wee
ks-of-their-claim-en
ding/
Another tragic story linked to the heartless tick box unfit for purpose assessment system thousands are repeatedly forced to endure. How on earth could this poor man ever be considered fit for work ? Once again Atos did not do their job properly and contact the GP ... possibly as they would have had to pay for this info and it would eat into the profits.!! The person that did the assessment , most likely as in all of mine, a nurse, should be investigated and if found to have provided false information, aka lied, as we know fine well they do, struck off. They do after all surely have a duty of care as per the hippocratic oath, and falsifying infotrmation is a sackable offence ... of do they ignore the oath once they take the Atos shilling ?? The decision maker, and bear in mind these are lowly DWP workers and are not medically trained, if found to have made a wrong judgement should be sacked on the grounds of gross incompetence. More and more we are seeing such tragic stories, and there seems little or no redress for the poor souls involved. Thus far as per the DWP own figures "between January 2011 and November 2011, some 10,600 claims ended and a date of death was recorded within six weeks of the claim ending" Suspicious they they now refuse to give us the true upto date figures despite numerous FOI requests http://blacktriangle campaign.org/2012/10 /04/10600-sick-disab led-people-died-last -year-within-six-wee ks-of-their-claim-en ding/ janxh54
  • Score: 48

2:52pm Fri 28 Feb 14

Dilligaf2010 says...

The "Medical Professionals" that ATOS employ are merely people who can tick boxes on a computer screen, or ask people to perform certain movements, I'd doubt they've had any more medical training than the average shop assistant.
A 20 minute "Assessment" isn't enough to give an indication of anyone's physical, or mental, condition.
A pertinent paragraph on the rejection letter is.........
"However, I should explain that entitlement to Employment and Support Allowance is not based on someone's health condition or disability itself.
It is based on what a person is capable of doing, rather than assuming that their health condition or disability automatically prevents them from being able to work."
Prior to my breakdown, I'd not had a day out of work in 24 years, I was a Robot Engineer leading up to it, and in the Armed Forces prior to that, so I'm no shirker, if I felt I was able to work, I'd be out there working rather than living on medication, and having to take tablets to give me a chance to sleep.
I'm fighting, with my GP on my side, and I'll keep fighting for as long as I have to, either until I'm strong enough to return to work, or I can't face the world anymore.
The "Medical Professionals" that ATOS employ are merely people who can tick boxes on a computer screen, or ask people to perform certain movements, I'd doubt they've had any more medical training than the average shop assistant. A 20 minute "Assessment" isn't enough to give an indication of anyone's physical, or mental, condition. A pertinent paragraph on the rejection letter is......... "However, I should explain that entitlement to Employment and Support Allowance is not based on someone's health condition or disability itself. It is based on what a person is capable of doing, rather than assuming that their health condition or disability automatically prevents them from being able to work." Prior to my breakdown, I'd not had a day out of work in 24 years, I was a Robot Engineer leading up to it, and in the Armed Forces prior to that, so I'm no shirker, if I felt I was able to work, I'd be out there working rather than living on medication, and having to take tablets to give me a chance to sleep. I'm fighting, with my GP on my side, and I'll keep fighting for as long as I have to, either until I'm strong enough to return to work, or I can't face the world anymore. Dilligaf2010
  • Score: 49

4:10pm Fri 28 Feb 14

Cowel1 says...

I have two friends who had a 10 minute tick box chart assessment by Atos. While the Job Centre acknowledged the one with mental health problems had 6 points and does have health problems, they still sent him to a work programme who get paid for making them take any old job, but they don't help in any way with his mental health problems and now he's feeling worse than when his doctor first signed him off work. The other one is in a wheel chair and is also on a work programme not suited for his disability.
I have two friends who had a 10 minute tick box chart assessment by Atos. While the Job Centre acknowledged the one with mental health problems had 6 points and does have health problems, they still sent him to a work programme who get paid for making them take any old job, but they don't help in any way with his mental health problems and now he's feeling worse than when his doctor first signed him off work. The other one is in a wheel chair and is also on a work programme not suited for his disability. Cowel1
  • Score: 39

4:11pm Fri 28 Feb 14

Dilligaf2010 says...

I've just been informed, I've beaten ATOS! I've been awarded ESA.
I've just been informed, I've beaten ATOS! I've been awarded ESA. Dilligaf2010
  • Score: 36

4:30pm Fri 28 Feb 14

kempy1966 says...

Absolutely disgusted after reading people should notice what they are like it is in their name Atos could not give these pen pushers should be brought to justice for murder.Still this is what this corrupt government is doing to genuinely I'll people .It is about time the British public are not going to sit back and be dictated by some rregime that is no better than saddam or binladin
Absolutely disgusted after reading people should notice what they are like it is in their name Atos could not give these pen pushers should be brought to justice for murder.Still this is what this corrupt government is doing to genuinely I'll people .It is about time the British public are not going to sit back and be dictated by some rregime that is no better than saddam or binladin kempy1966
  • Score: 23

4:31pm Fri 28 Feb 14

SgtSmileyUK says...

Dilligaf2010 wrote:
The "Medical Professionals" that ATOS employ are merely people who can tick boxes on a computer screen, or ask people to perform certain movements, I'd doubt they've had any more medical training than the average shop assistant.
A 20 minute "Assessment" isn't enough to give an indication of anyone's physical, or mental, condition.
A pertinent paragraph on the rejection letter is.........
"However, I should explain that entitlement to Employment and Support Allowance is not based on someone's health condition or disability itself.
It is based on what a person is capable of doing, rather than assuming that their health condition or disability automatically prevents them from being able to work."
Prior to my breakdown, I'd not had a day out of work in 24 years, I was a Robot Engineer leading up to it, and in the Armed Forces prior to that, so I'm no shirker, if I felt I was able to work, I'd be out there working rather than living on medication, and having to take tablets to give me a chance to sleep.
I'm fighting, with my GP on my side, and I'll keep fighting for as long as I have to, either until I'm strong enough to return to work, or I can't face the world anymore.
stay alive !cost them more, whether medically or judicially, do we need to be jailed in order to get help. do we need to be dying before they listen to our ails, beware ye waye of ye wolfes. no more shall we lose our angels. rise up angels of god, hold back the tide of satan.
MY eyes are burning with tears of shame for our fallen brother, may god grant him eternal peace and be merciful to us in his forgiveness.
Aspergers are Angels, they can save us all. It is our ignorance and unwilling to believe in greater things that are dooming the planet. trust your heart. LOve and peace stop all the blame and hate,leave this rancid past behind, do we not learn anything from history?
[quote][p][bold]Dilligaf2010[/bold] wrote: The "Medical Professionals" that ATOS employ are merely people who can tick boxes on a computer screen, or ask people to perform certain movements, I'd doubt they've had any more medical training than the average shop assistant. A 20 minute "Assessment" isn't enough to give an indication of anyone's physical, or mental, condition. A pertinent paragraph on the rejection letter is......... "However, I should explain that entitlement to Employment and Support Allowance is not based on someone's health condition or disability itself. It is based on what a person is capable of doing, rather than assuming that their health condition or disability automatically prevents them from being able to work." Prior to my breakdown, I'd not had a day out of work in 24 years, I was a Robot Engineer leading up to it, and in the Armed Forces prior to that, so I'm no shirker, if I felt I was able to work, I'd be out there working rather than living on medication, and having to take tablets to give me a chance to sleep. I'm fighting, with my GP on my side, and I'll keep fighting for as long as I have to, either until I'm strong enough to return to work, or I can't face the world anymore.[/p][/quote]stay alive !cost them more, whether medically or judicially, do we need to be jailed in order to get help. do we need to be dying before they listen to our ails, beware ye waye of ye wolfes. no more shall we lose our angels. rise up angels of god, hold back the tide of satan. MY eyes are burning with tears of shame for our fallen brother, may god grant him eternal peace and be merciful to us in his forgiveness. Aspergers are Angels, they can save us all. It is our ignorance and unwilling to believe in greater things that are dooming the planet. trust your heart. LOve and peace stop all the blame and hate,leave this rancid past behind, do we not learn anything from history? SgtSmileyUK
  • Score: 17

4:39pm Fri 28 Feb 14

SgtSmileyUK says...

there should be no more deaths, no more killings, no more wars,no more hate for all them things feed each other.
isnt it time to feed the world with love.
I say this to ye ministers of high, beware the Lemon Revolution.
beware the wrath of angels, beware the wrath of God, for there is no worse emotion for a man than shame.
I am ashamed to be human and will carry this shame heavily til I die.
there should be no more deaths, no more killings, no more wars,no more hate for all them things feed each other. isnt it time to feed the world with love. I say this to ye ministers of high, beware the Lemon Revolution. beware the wrath of angels, beware the wrath of God, for there is no worse emotion for a man than shame. I am ashamed to be human and will carry this shame heavily til I die. SgtSmileyUK
  • Score: 3

5:06pm Fri 28 Feb 14

scoobymark says...

they don't care about anyone apart from them self's
i have a damaged spine and they have told me i'm fit for work because i can:
"YOU CAN MOVE MORE THAN 200 METERS ON FLAT GROUND ( MOVING COULD INCLUDE WALKING, USING CRUTCHES OR USING A WHEELCHAIR).

YOU CAN USUALLY STAY IN ONE PLACE (EITHER STANDING OR SITTING) FOR MORE THAN AN HOUR WITHOUT HAVING TO MOVE AWAY.

YOU CAN RAISE AT LEAST ONE OF YOUR ARMS ABOVE HEAD HIGHT.

YOU CAN PICK UP AND MOVE OBJECTS SUCH AS AN EMPTY CARDBOARD BOX OR A CARTON OF LIQUID.

AND SO ON.

i'm a mechanic by trade don't know anything else, There is no company going to hire me with a damaged back there insurance won't cover me.

so now we have to live on £145 a week 2 adults and 3 children and pay the £500 rent a month, gas, electric and food never mind cloths and stuff for them.
My youngest son turned 4 on saturday and asked if we got him a cake for his birthday i had to say NO to him he looked heartbroken that's all he wanted and his DAD ( me ) couldn't get it for him. That look on his face broke my heart. I wish they could see what they have done to me and my family
they don't care about anyone apart from them self's i have a damaged spine and they have told me i'm fit for work because i can: "YOU CAN MOVE MORE THAN 200 METERS ON FLAT GROUND ( MOVING COULD INCLUDE WALKING, USING CRUTCHES OR USING A WHEELCHAIR). YOU CAN USUALLY STAY IN ONE PLACE (EITHER STANDING OR SITTING) FOR MORE THAN AN HOUR WITHOUT HAVING TO MOVE AWAY. YOU CAN RAISE AT LEAST ONE OF YOUR ARMS ABOVE HEAD HIGHT. YOU CAN PICK UP AND MOVE OBJECTS SUCH AS AN EMPTY CARDBOARD BOX OR A CARTON OF LIQUID. AND SO ON. i'm a mechanic by trade don't know anything else, There is no company going to hire me with a damaged back there insurance won't cover me. so now we have to live on £145 a week 2 adults and 3 children and pay the £500 rent a month, gas, electric and food never mind cloths and stuff for them. My youngest son turned 4 on saturday and asked if we got him a cake for his birthday i had to say NO to him he looked heartbroken that's all he wanted and his DAD ( me ) couldn't get it for him. That look on his face broke my heart. I wish they could see what they have done to me and my family scoobymark
  • Score: 39

5:16pm Fri 28 Feb 14

i'm_disgruntled says...

“We carry out the Government’s Work Capability Assessment as professionally and compassionately as possible.”
This comment of ATOS made me so angry I cried, if they are professional and compassionate – then Hitler ran holiday camps for the Jews
“We carry out the Government’s Work Capability Assessment as professionally and compassionately as possible.” This comment of ATOS made me so angry I cried, if they are professional and compassionate – then Hitler ran holiday camps for the Jews i'm_disgruntled
  • Score: 36

5:22pm Fri 28 Feb 14

Dilligaf2010 says...

scoobymark wrote:
they don't care about anyone apart from them self's
i have a damaged spine and they have told me i'm fit for work because i can:
"YOU CAN MOVE MORE THAN 200 METERS ON FLAT GROUND ( MOVING COULD INCLUDE WALKING, USING CRUTCHES OR USING A WHEELCHAIR).

YOU CAN USUALLY STAY IN ONE PLACE (EITHER STANDING OR SITTING) FOR MORE THAN AN HOUR WITHOUT HAVING TO MOVE AWAY.

YOU CAN RAISE AT LEAST ONE OF YOUR ARMS ABOVE HEAD HIGHT.

YOU CAN PICK UP AND MOVE OBJECTS SUCH AS AN EMPTY CARDBOARD BOX OR A CARTON OF LIQUID.

AND SO ON.

i'm a mechanic by trade don't know anything else, There is no company going to hire me with a damaged back there insurance won't cover me.

so now we have to live on £145 a week 2 adults and 3 children and pay the £500 rent a month, gas, electric and food never mind cloths and stuff for them.
My youngest son turned 4 on saturday and asked if we got him a cake for his birthday i had to say NO to him he looked heartbroken that's all he wanted and his DAD ( me ) couldn't get it for him. That look on his face broke my heart. I wish they could see what they have done to me and my family
Did you appeal their decision. I wasn't prepared to accept it, so asked for the mandatory reconsideration.
I sent a letter of support from my GP, and I sent a letter from myself ripping the ATOS assessment, and "Healthcare Professional" to shreds. The woman doing my reconsideration called me today to get the facts clear, and then worked overtime to get things processed so she could call me with the positive result.
I've been under so much stress since my ATOS appointment at the beginning of January, but I wasn't prepared to let them win........We've got to stand up to these money grabbing corporations.
I didn't use their services, but http://www.benefitsa
ndwork.co.uk/ appear to have had some amazing results.
Best of luck for the future
[quote][p][bold]scoobymark[/bold] wrote: they don't care about anyone apart from them self's i have a damaged spine and they have told me i'm fit for work because i can: "YOU CAN MOVE MORE THAN 200 METERS ON FLAT GROUND ( MOVING COULD INCLUDE WALKING, USING CRUTCHES OR USING A WHEELCHAIR). YOU CAN USUALLY STAY IN ONE PLACE (EITHER STANDING OR SITTING) FOR MORE THAN AN HOUR WITHOUT HAVING TO MOVE AWAY. YOU CAN RAISE AT LEAST ONE OF YOUR ARMS ABOVE HEAD HIGHT. YOU CAN PICK UP AND MOVE OBJECTS SUCH AS AN EMPTY CARDBOARD BOX OR A CARTON OF LIQUID. AND SO ON. i'm a mechanic by trade don't know anything else, There is no company going to hire me with a damaged back there insurance won't cover me. so now we have to live on £145 a week 2 adults and 3 children and pay the £500 rent a month, gas, electric and food never mind cloths and stuff for them. My youngest son turned 4 on saturday and asked if we got him a cake for his birthday i had to say NO to him he looked heartbroken that's all he wanted and his DAD ( me ) couldn't get it for him. That look on his face broke my heart. I wish they could see what they have done to me and my family[/p][/quote]Did you appeal their decision. I wasn't prepared to accept it, so asked for the mandatory reconsideration. I sent a letter of support from my GP, and I sent a letter from myself ripping the ATOS assessment, and "Healthcare Professional" to shreds. The woman doing my reconsideration called me today to get the facts clear, and then worked overtime to get things processed so she could call me with the positive result. I've been under so much stress since my ATOS appointment at the beginning of January, but I wasn't prepared to let them win........We've got to stand up to these money grabbing corporations. I didn't use their services, but http://www.benefitsa ndwork.co.uk/ appear to have had some amazing results. Best of luck for the future Dilligaf2010
  • Score: 32

6:28pm Fri 28 Feb 14

oafie says...

Despite what people might think and how the media portray them it is not the fault of Atos- who undertake assessments as required by the DWP.

This man needed appropriate health and social care! irrespective of what Atos might be doing.

This gentleman like many sick, fragile and vulnerable people are being failed by society and the governments plan/perspective that all the ills of this country are to be blamed on the poor sick and needy.
if the government started to collect taxes they are owed they would achieve far more than simply cutting the welfare needed to people.

We are now a country of have's and have not's, with a small percentage of people obscenely wealthy, we have an economy based on making money! with no concern for those that 'fall by the wayside and are unable to keep going on the corporation hamster wheel'. Until this government and country changes it's priorities things are only going to get worse.
Despite what people might think and how the media portray them it is not the fault of Atos- who undertake assessments as required by the DWP. This man needed appropriate health and social care! irrespective of what Atos might be doing. This gentleman like many sick, fragile and vulnerable people are being failed by society and the governments plan/perspective that all the ills of this country are to be blamed on the poor sick and needy. if the government started to collect taxes they are owed they would achieve far more than simply cutting the welfare needed to people. We are now a country of have's and have not's, with a small percentage of people obscenely wealthy, we have an economy based on making money! with no concern for those that 'fall by the wayside and are unable to keep going on the corporation hamster wheel'. Until this government and country changes it's priorities things are only going to get worse. oafie
  • Score: 25

7:00pm Fri 28 Feb 14

Dilligaf2010 says...

oafie wrote:
Despite what people might think and how the media portray them it is not the fault of Atos- who undertake assessments as required by the DWP.

This man needed appropriate health and social care! irrespective of what Atos might be doing.

This gentleman like many sick, fragile and vulnerable people are being failed by society and the governments plan/perspective that all the ills of this country are to be blamed on the poor sick and needy.
if the government started to collect taxes they are owed they would achieve far more than simply cutting the welfare needed to people.

We are now a country of have's and have not's, with a small percentage of people obscenely wealthy, we have an economy based on making money! with no concern for those that 'fall by the wayside and are unable to keep going on the corporation hamster wheel'. Until this government and country changes it's priorities things are only going to get worse.
Trust me, it is the fault of ATOS.
They undertake the assessments as required, as you said, but it's how they do them, and the results they pass to the DWP.
The letter I received from the DWP informing me that I'd not been awarded ESA, gave a breakdown of the assessment they based their decision on, it bore no relation to what was said by me at the assessment, the "Healthcare Professional" had reworded what I'd said, so as to make me appear fit for work.
Once the DWP had the facts, the decision was overturned, and I was awarded ESA.
I went along to my assessment with an open mind, despite what I'd heard and read, but having now experienced one of their assessments, and seen the results, I know how bad they really are.
[quote][p][bold]oafie[/bold] wrote: Despite what people might think and how the media portray them it is not the fault of Atos- who undertake assessments as required by the DWP. This man needed appropriate health and social care! irrespective of what Atos might be doing. This gentleman like many sick, fragile and vulnerable people are being failed by society and the governments plan/perspective that all the ills of this country are to be blamed on the poor sick and needy. if the government started to collect taxes they are owed they would achieve far more than simply cutting the welfare needed to people. We are now a country of have's and have not's, with a small percentage of people obscenely wealthy, we have an economy based on making money! with no concern for those that 'fall by the wayside and are unable to keep going on the corporation hamster wheel'. Until this government and country changes it's priorities things are only going to get worse.[/p][/quote]Trust me, it is the fault of ATOS. They undertake the assessments as required, as you said, but it's how they do them, and the results they pass to the DWP. The letter I received from the DWP informing me that I'd not been awarded ESA, gave a breakdown of the assessment they based their decision on, it bore no relation to what was said by me at the assessment, the "Healthcare Professional" had reworded what I'd said, so as to make me appear fit for work. Once the DWP had the facts, the decision was overturned, and I was awarded ESA. I went along to my assessment with an open mind, despite what I'd heard and read, but having now experienced one of their assessments, and seen the results, I know how bad they really are. Dilligaf2010
  • Score: 22

7:06pm Fri 28 Feb 14

DeanFox says...

ATOS is being set up as to blame for this Government's policies. They were wrong to follow orders but remember who gave the orders.
ATOS is being set up as to blame for this Government's policies. They were wrong to follow orders but remember who gave the orders. DeanFox
  • Score: 25

9:37pm Fri 28 Feb 14

kiddysale says...

i hate to point this out but housing benefit should not have been taken away that is not the DWP function all they tell housing benefit is your no longer entitled to jsa/esa etc it is then stopped till you tell them your new income if he had gone in and told them he was not getting more money he was getting less they would have reassessed him on his income and paid his rent that goes for all incomes/benefits housing benefit is MEANS TESTED which means if you have no money they will pay if you have low money they pay there is no reason for people to go without housing just because they lose everything else when i was unemployed i was sanctioned because my son was seriously ill and i missed an appointment they stopped my benefits so i went in asking H/B what happens now they told me to make a formal statement and put it on my file so the benefit would not be stopped my sanction was overturned on appeal but i had to fight to get my payments back as even though i had won my case they still did not want to return my money!!
i hate to point this out but housing benefit should not have been taken away that is not the DWP function all they tell housing benefit is your no longer entitled to jsa/esa etc it is then stopped till you tell them your new income if he had gone in and told them he was not getting more money he was getting less they would have reassessed him on his income and paid his rent that goes for all incomes/benefits housing benefit is MEANS TESTED which means if you have no money they will pay if you have low money they pay there is no reason for people to go without housing just because they lose everything else when i was unemployed i was sanctioned because my son was seriously ill and i missed an appointment they stopped my benefits so i went in asking H/B what happens now they told me to make a formal statement and put it on my file so the benefit would not be stopped my sanction was overturned on appeal but i had to fight to get my payments back as even though i had won my case they still did not want to return my money!! kiddysale
  • Score: 11

9:37pm Fri 28 Feb 14

Felixfifi2012 says...

Husband had a phone call at 5pm Christmas Eve to say that following atos assessment that after 16 years he scored 0 and benefits have stopped we have asked for a mandatory review and are still waiting with no money
Husband had a phone call at 5pm Christmas Eve to say that following atos assessment that after 16 years he scored 0 and benefits have stopped we have asked for a mandatory review and are still waiting with no money Felixfifi2012
  • Score: 11

11:03pm Fri 28 Feb 14

Mr_Nemo says...

Steve Magee wrote:
This morally corrupt government do not give a **** about the weak, poor and the vulnerable in society.

In Victorian times, being poor was considered a crime, it would appear that our present government also shares that view.

How long will it be before David Cameron and his cronies bring back workhouses?

David Cameron and his multimillionaire cabinet chums have no idea what it is like to live in the real world.
They won't bring back workhouses, as the cost of building new institutions would mean spending taxpayers' money - and the present kakistocracy is too cheap to do that.
[quote][p][bold]Steve Magee[/bold] wrote: This morally corrupt government do not give a **** about the weak, poor and the vulnerable in society. In Victorian times, being poor was considered a crime, it would appear that our present government also shares that view. How long will it be before David Cameron and his cronies bring back workhouses? David Cameron and his multimillionaire cabinet chums have no idea what it is like to live in the real world.[/p][/quote]They won't bring back workhouses, as the cost of building new institutions would mean spending taxpayers' money - and the present kakistocracy is too cheap to do that. Mr_Nemo
  • Score: 10

11:40pm Fri 28 Feb 14

doctor1970 says...

The DWP just don't care who lives and who dies, has long as they get paid at the end of the month.
The DWP just don't care who lives and who dies, has long as they get paid at the end of the month. doctor1970
  • Score: 10

1:02am Sat 1 Mar 14

victor weisshaus says...

Assessed as being fit to work at 35kg, 5 stone 8 lbs. Of the last of the liberated 118 Changi POW survivors, the average weight was 7 stone, 2 lb. Maybe the Japanese officers were more compassionate than the British unemployment authorities. I just did some quick research to illustrate some comparative analysis.
Assessed as being fit to work at 35kg, 5 stone 8 lbs. Of the last of the liberated 118 Changi POW survivors, the average weight was 7 stone, 2 lb. Maybe the Japanese officers were more compassionate than the British unemployment authorities. I just did some quick research to illustrate some comparative analysis. victor weisshaus
  • Score: 14

2:09pm Sat 1 Mar 14

BobsYourUncle1122 says...

PDplum wrote:
he gave the money away meant for buying food. How is that anyones fault but his own?
Did you read the article properly? He gave away the £250 he was given by his family because he wants to be independent and doesn't want 'charity'.
[quote][p][bold]PDplum[/bold] wrote: he gave the money away meant for buying food. How is that anyones fault but his own?[/p][/quote]Did you read the article properly? He gave away the £250 he was given by his family because he wants to be independent and doesn't want 'charity'. BobsYourUncle1122
  • Score: 2

5:15pm Sat 1 Mar 14

Donald Merritt says...

Was he always on benefits? If so why? If not it proves giving benefits takes away self preservation.
In Panama where you don't get benefits the disabled can be seen doing anything to survive. Some are in their 60s and still surviving. Take away pride by giving everything for nothing and you end up with people who forget how to cope. it's called socialism. It steals pride and the desire to advance oneself.
You will find those whose physical ability was taken from then but not their pride survive AND PROSPER in all walks of life. Take away benefits from those who have NEVER worked (unless they are actually really disabled) and they will learn to survive. Life is a jungle as you will see watching wild life.
Was he always on benefits? If so why? If not it proves giving benefits takes away self preservation. In Panama where you don't get benefits the disabled can be seen doing anything to survive. Some are in their 60s and still surviving. Take away pride by giving everything for nothing and you end up with people who forget how to cope. it's called socialism. It steals pride and the desire to advance oneself. You will find those whose physical ability was taken from then but not their pride survive AND PROSPER in all walks of life. Take away benefits from those who have NEVER worked (unless they are actually really disabled) and they will learn to survive. Life is a jungle as you will see watching wild life. Donald Merritt
  • Score: -25

7:42pm Sat 1 Mar 14

Oxonian says...

Donald Merritt wrote:
Was he always on benefits? If so why? If not it proves giving benefits takes away self preservation.
In Panama where you don't get benefits the disabled can be seen doing anything to survive. Some are in their 60s and still surviving. Take away pride by giving everything for nothing and you end up with people who forget how to cope. it's called socialism. It steals pride and the desire to advance oneself.
You will find those whose physical ability was taken from then but not their pride survive AND PROSPER in all walks of life. Take away benefits from those who have NEVER worked (unless they are actually really disabled) and they will learn to survive. Life is a jungle as you will see watching wild life.
What absolute nonsense. Some people are genuinely unable to work through disability of some kind or another (which may be mental or physical). They need and deserve help, not a callous pretence that helping them takes away their pride.

One day, Donald Merritt, you may be disabled. Then, maybe, you'll develop a spark of humanity.
[quote][p][bold]Donald Merritt[/bold] wrote: Was he always on benefits? If so why? If not it proves giving benefits takes away self preservation. In Panama where you don't get benefits the disabled can be seen doing anything to survive. Some are in their 60s and still surviving. Take away pride by giving everything for nothing and you end up with people who forget how to cope. it's called socialism. It steals pride and the desire to advance oneself. You will find those whose physical ability was taken from then but not their pride survive AND PROSPER in all walks of life. Take away benefits from those who have NEVER worked (unless they are actually really disabled) and they will learn to survive. Life is a jungle as you will see watching wild life.[/p][/quote]What absolute nonsense. Some people are genuinely unable to work through disability of some kind or another (which may be mental or physical). They need and deserve help, not a callous pretence that helping them takes away their pride. One day, Donald Merritt, you may be disabled. Then, maybe, you'll develop a spark of humanity. Oxonian
  • Score: 22

8:21pm Sat 1 Mar 14

wales01man says...

I honestly think there is more to this than a few lines are telling us a lot of people and organisations have failed this man not just ATOS DWP
I honestly think there is more to this than a few lines are telling us a lot of people and organisations have failed this man not just ATOS DWP wales01man
  • Score: 9

12:04pm Sun 2 Mar 14

mags50 says...

Last year I had to be assessed for Employment & support allowance, It took them 13 weeks to **** me! Yes, no money for 13 weeks and I and my daughter were reduced to living on cereal and yogurts for a time. That was a very long and stressful time for us which effected us both physically and mentally. I would not wish that on anyone- It was disgraceful!!
Last year I had to be assessed for Employment & support allowance, It took them 13 weeks to **** me! Yes, no money for 13 weeks and I and my daughter were reduced to living on cereal and yogurts for a time. That was a very long and stressful time for us which effected us both physically and mentally. I would not wish that on anyone- It was disgraceful!! mags50
  • Score: 13

7:20pm Sun 2 Mar 14

Bon Rurgundy says...

i'm_disgruntled wrote:
“We carry out the Government’s Work Capability Assessment as professionally and compassionately as possible.”
This comment of ATOS made me so angry I cried, if they are professional and compassionate – then Hitler ran holiday camps for the Jews
Well done! http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Godwin's_la
w
[quote][p][bold]i'm_disgruntled[/bold] wrote: “We carry out the Government’s Work Capability Assessment as professionally and compassionately as possible.” This comment of ATOS made me so angry I cried, if they are professional and compassionate – then Hitler ran holiday camps for the Jews[/p][/quote]Well done! http://en.wikipedia. org/wiki/Godwin's_la w Bon Rurgundy
  • Score: -3

9:46pm Sun 2 Mar 14

bicesterlady says...

wales01man wrote:
I honestly think there is more to this than a few lines are telling us a lot of people and organisations have failed this man not just ATOS DWP
Agree completely- this poor man was utterly failed on so many levels.
[quote][p][bold]wales01man[/bold] wrote: I honestly think there is more to this than a few lines are telling us a lot of people and organisations have failed this man not just ATOS DWP[/p][/quote]Agree completely- this poor man was utterly failed on so many levels. bicesterlady
  • Score: 7

1:07pm Mon 3 Mar 14

Cowel1 says...

Mr_Nemo wrote:
Steve Magee wrote:
This morally corrupt government do not give a **** about the weak, poor and the vulnerable in society.

In Victorian times, being poor was considered a crime, it would appear that our present government also shares that view.

How long will it be before David Cameron and his cronies bring back workhouses?

David Cameron and his multimillionaire cabinet chums have no idea what it is like to live in the real world.
They won't bring back workhouses, as the cost of building new institutions would mean spending taxpayers' money - and the present kakistocracy is too cheap to do that.
Why do they need work houses when they can get people to shelf stack with no training in anything useful for free for their corporate donors?
[quote][p][bold]Mr_Nemo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Steve Magee[/bold] wrote: This morally corrupt government do not give a **** about the weak, poor and the vulnerable in society. In Victorian times, being poor was considered a crime, it would appear that our present government also shares that view. How long will it be before David Cameron and his cronies bring back workhouses? David Cameron and his multimillionaire cabinet chums have no idea what it is like to live in the real world.[/p][/quote]They won't bring back workhouses, as the cost of building new institutions would mean spending taxpayers' money - and the present kakistocracy is too cheap to do that.[/p][/quote]Why do they need work houses when they can get people to shelf stack with no training in anything useful for free for their corporate donors? Cowel1
  • Score: 3

12:00pm Tue 4 Mar 14

the wizard says...

After my wife's stroke Atos tried to stop her DLA. I sent them a very strongly worded reply, hospital discharge notes, and meds list. They didn't reply, so I spoke to a solicitor and got a solicitors letter sent with documented evidence of her condition and further complications. They re instated her DLA stating a administrative error was responsible, yeh, my big toe, they were trying it on. At the same time I wrote a beautifully 5ithy letter to Cameron, job done.
Atos also have a habit of losing letters and assessments etc, so the way around it is to send everything recorded delivery with a request for confirmation of receipt inside with a pre paid envelope.
Their sloppiness is causing untold harm and hardship to many. Time they were disbanded. If Cameron can afford tax cuts for the rich then he can afford care for the needy, and that should come first, after all, Charity Starts at Home. I fear that there are many cases such as this one reported by the OM, but sadly none are making the headlines at national level as they should, to bring pressure on Atos to reform its ideology and methods. Sadly I doubt if anyone will be losing their job over this, but a charge of corporate manslaughter should be sought against Atos and the Government..
After my wife's stroke Atos tried to stop her DLA. I sent them a very strongly worded reply, hospital discharge notes, and meds list. They didn't reply, so I spoke to a solicitor and got a solicitors letter sent with documented evidence of her condition and further complications. They re instated her DLA stating a administrative error was responsible, yeh, my big toe, they were trying it on. At the same time I wrote a beautifully 5ithy letter to Cameron, job done. Atos also have a habit of losing letters and assessments etc, so the way around it is to send everything recorded delivery with a request for confirmation of receipt inside with a pre paid envelope. Their sloppiness is causing untold harm and hardship to many. Time they were disbanded. If Cameron can afford tax cuts for the rich then he can afford care for the needy, and that should come first, after all, Charity Starts at Home. I fear that there are many cases such as this one reported by the OM, but sadly none are making the headlines at national level as they should, to bring pressure on Atos to reform its ideology and methods. Sadly I doubt if anyone will be losing their job over this, but a charge of corporate manslaughter should be sought against Atos and the Government.. the wizard
  • Score: 8

1:17am Wed 5 Mar 14

bicesterlady says...

Just read the comments. Not many mention Mark- the poor man at the centre of this.

Clearly a vulnerable person cast aside by the system. But let's not forget him in amongst the ATOS related comments.

RIP Mark.
Just read the comments. Not many mention Mark- the poor man at the centre of this. Clearly a vulnerable person cast aside by the system. But let's not forget him in amongst the ATOS related comments. RIP Mark. bicesterlady
  • Score: 6

2:16pm Wed 5 Mar 14

Lord Palmerstone says...

Dilligaf2010 wrote:
PDplum wrote:
he gave the money away meant for buying food. How is that anyones fault but his own?
You clearly have no understanding of mental health problems
It would be a very eccentric mental health problem that made someone say "I shall give away that which is given to me by those who love me but I shall not do the same with that which is given to me by a bureaucracy which, by definition behaves sine ira et studio; that is, officially , and quite properly, disinterested in me". For if a bureaucracy acts partially it is a failed bureaucracy. Not wishing to be offensive but Mr Dillgaf, would you care to explain who someone with disordered mental health would go through such a process of ratiocination? To whom did he give the money? Did that person not see fit to enquire why he was the beneficiary of this chap? not notice that the chap was ill and needed help? Did no one notice he was ill and needed help? Who visited him in the days before his death? As many questions are raised as had there been no inquest.
[quote][p][bold]Dilligaf2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]PDplum[/bold] wrote: he gave the money away meant for buying food. How is that anyones fault but his own?[/p][/quote]You clearly have no understanding of mental health problems[/p][/quote]It would be a very eccentric mental health problem that made someone say "I shall give away that which is given to me by those who love me but I shall not do the same with that which is given to me by a bureaucracy which, by definition behaves sine ira et studio; that is, officially , and quite properly, disinterested in me". For if a bureaucracy acts partially it is a failed bureaucracy. Not wishing to be offensive but Mr Dillgaf, would you care to explain who someone with disordered mental health would go through such a process of ratiocination? To whom did he give the money? Did that person not see fit to enquire why he was the beneficiary of this chap? not notice that the chap was ill and needed help? Did no one notice he was ill and needed help? Who visited him in the days before his death? As many questions are raised as had there been no inquest. Lord Palmerstone
  • Score: -2

2:47pm Wed 5 Mar 14

Oxonian says...

"sine ira et studio"? Yes, let's quote Latin to show how educated we are. And let's supply all sorts of excuses for the death of this poor, mentally-afflicted man, who was managing all right until ATOS and DWP took away most of his allowances.

There is no excuse.
"sine ira et studio"? Yes, let's quote Latin to show how educated we are. And let's supply all sorts of excuses for the death of this poor, mentally-afflicted man, who was managing all right until ATOS and DWP took away most of his allowances. There is no excuse. Oxonian
  • Score: 5

5:49pm Wed 5 Mar 14

Lord Palmerstone says...

Oxonian wrote:
"sine ira et studio"? Yes, let's quote Latin to show how educated we are. And let's supply all sorts of excuses for the death of this poor, mentally-afflicted man, who was managing all right until ATOS and DWP took away most of his allowances.

There is no excuse.
I don't know whether you're educated or not. I was simply responding to a silly remark under the pseudonym Dilligaf2010. There is no mental disorder which gives you affinity to money provided by the taxpayer via quangos and which isolates you from that given by your loved ones. If you do not think that the person who was then given the money should not have a very great deal on his conscience then that is your opinion. I think people are infinitely more important than quangos and the motives of someone who would thus enrich himself at the expensive of a clearly vulnerable young man are profoundly suspect. If those nearest and dearest to Mark had wished to present evidence from his doctor it was open to them so to do and, whilst it is a bureaucratic nightmare, I have known it to be effective. Shame it wasn't tried.
[quote][p][bold]Oxonian[/bold] wrote: "sine ira et studio"? Yes, let's quote Latin to show how educated we are. And let's supply all sorts of excuses for the death of this poor, mentally-afflicted man, who was managing all right until ATOS and DWP took away most of his allowances. There is no excuse.[/p][/quote]I don't know whether you're educated or not. I was simply responding to a silly remark under the pseudonym Dilligaf2010. There is no mental disorder which gives you affinity to money provided by the taxpayer via quangos and which isolates you from that given by your loved ones. If you do not think that the person who was then given the money should not have a very great deal on his conscience then that is your opinion. I think people are infinitely more important than quangos and the motives of someone who would thus enrich himself at the expensive of a clearly vulnerable young man are profoundly suspect. If those nearest and dearest to Mark had wished to present evidence from his doctor it was open to them so to do and, whilst it is a bureaucratic nightmare, I have known it to be effective. Shame it wasn't tried. Lord Palmerstone
  • Score: -2

6:09pm Wed 5 Mar 14

Oxonian says...

Lord Palmerstone wrote:
Oxonian wrote:
"sine ira et studio"? Yes, let's quote Latin to show how educated we are. And let's supply all sorts of excuses for the death of this poor, mentally-afflicted man, who was managing all right until ATOS and DWP took away most of his allowances.

There is no excuse.
I don't know whether you're educated or not. I was simply responding to a silly remark under the pseudonym Dilligaf2010. There is no mental disorder which gives you affinity to money provided by the taxpayer via quangos and which isolates you from that given by your loved ones. If you do not think that the person who was then given the money should not have a very great deal on his conscience then that is your opinion. I think people are infinitely more important than quangos and the motives of someone who would thus enrich himself at the expensive of a clearly vulnerable young man are profoundly suspect. If those nearest and dearest to Mark had wished to present evidence from his doctor it was open to them so to do and, whilst it is a bureaucratic nightmare, I have known it to be effective. Shame it wasn't tried.
Yes, I am educated -- I even have an A-level in Latin.

Your earlier post dismissed this man's disabilities as "a very eccentric mental health problem". That is probably what it was, reading the evidence. I agree with Dilligaf's comment that "You clearly have no understanding of mental health problems".
[quote][p][bold]Lord Palmerstone[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Oxonian[/bold] wrote: "sine ira et studio"? Yes, let's quote Latin to show how educated we are. And let's supply all sorts of excuses for the death of this poor, mentally-afflicted man, who was managing all right until ATOS and DWP took away most of his allowances. There is no excuse.[/p][/quote]I don't know whether you're educated or not. I was simply responding to a silly remark under the pseudonym Dilligaf2010. There is no mental disorder which gives you affinity to money provided by the taxpayer via quangos and which isolates you from that given by your loved ones. If you do not think that the person who was then given the money should not have a very great deal on his conscience then that is your opinion. I think people are infinitely more important than quangos and the motives of someone who would thus enrich himself at the expensive of a clearly vulnerable young man are profoundly suspect. If those nearest and dearest to Mark had wished to present evidence from his doctor it was open to them so to do and, whilst it is a bureaucratic nightmare, I have known it to be effective. Shame it wasn't tried.[/p][/quote]Yes, I am educated -- I even have an A-level in Latin. Your earlier post dismissed this man's disabilities as "a very eccentric mental health problem". That is probably what it was, reading the evidence. I agree with Dilligaf's comment that "You clearly have no understanding of mental health problems". Oxonian
  • Score: 6

6:09pm Wed 5 Mar 14

Oxonian says...

Lord Palmerstone wrote:
Oxonian wrote:
"sine ira et studio"? Yes, let's quote Latin to show how educated we are. And let's supply all sorts of excuses for the death of this poor, mentally-afflicted man, who was managing all right until ATOS and DWP took away most of his allowances.

There is no excuse.
I don't know whether you're educated or not. I was simply responding to a silly remark under the pseudonym Dilligaf2010. There is no mental disorder which gives you affinity to money provided by the taxpayer via quangos and which isolates you from that given by your loved ones. If you do not think that the person who was then given the money should not have a very great deal on his conscience then that is your opinion. I think people are infinitely more important than quangos and the motives of someone who would thus enrich himself at the expensive of a clearly vulnerable young man are profoundly suspect. If those nearest and dearest to Mark had wished to present evidence from his doctor it was open to them so to do and, whilst it is a bureaucratic nightmare, I have known it to be effective. Shame it wasn't tried.
Yes, I am educated -- I even have an A-level in Latin.

Your earlier post dismissed this man's disabilities as "a very eccentric mental health problem". That is probably what it was, reading the evidence. I agree with Dilligaf's comment that "You clearly have no understanding of mental health problems".
[quote][p][bold]Lord Palmerstone[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Oxonian[/bold] wrote: "sine ira et studio"? Yes, let's quote Latin to show how educated we are. And let's supply all sorts of excuses for the death of this poor, mentally-afflicted man, who was managing all right until ATOS and DWP took away most of his allowances. There is no excuse.[/p][/quote]I don't know whether you're educated or not. I was simply responding to a silly remark under the pseudonym Dilligaf2010. There is no mental disorder which gives you affinity to money provided by the taxpayer via quangos and which isolates you from that given by your loved ones. If you do not think that the person who was then given the money should not have a very great deal on his conscience then that is your opinion. I think people are infinitely more important than quangos and the motives of someone who would thus enrich himself at the expensive of a clearly vulnerable young man are profoundly suspect. If those nearest and dearest to Mark had wished to present evidence from his doctor it was open to them so to do and, whilst it is a bureaucratic nightmare, I have known it to be effective. Shame it wasn't tried.[/p][/quote]Yes, I am educated -- I even have an A-level in Latin. Your earlier post dismissed this man's disabilities as "a very eccentric mental health problem". That is probably what it was, reading the evidence. I agree with Dilligaf's comment that "You clearly have no understanding of mental health problems". Oxonian
  • Score: 2

6:40pm Wed 5 Mar 14

Lord Palmerstone says...

And no doubt you do. It is breathtakingly simplistic to perceive the behaviour of bureaucracies as wholly causal of this human tragedy. It's quite a full report but I see nothing from anyone who helped Mark from day to day and , in fairness, would be the only person who could give a full insight.
I'm sure Mark's GP would not hold himself out as an expert on the disorders from which Mark suffered. All this stuff is a great opportunity for the dreary old anorak and bad breath brigade of lefties to bounce around on their perches. Yes, you'll be in power in 2015. It'll be all absolutely wonderful, like it was between 1997 and 2014. Happy now?
And no doubt you do. It is breathtakingly simplistic to perceive the behaviour of bureaucracies as wholly causal of this human tragedy. It's quite a full report but I see nothing from anyone who helped Mark from day to day and , in fairness, would be the only person who could give a full insight. I'm sure Mark's GP would not hold himself out as an expert on the disorders from which Mark suffered. All this stuff is a great opportunity for the dreary old anorak and bad breath brigade of lefties to bounce around on their perches. Yes, you'll be in power in 2015. It'll be all absolutely wonderful, like it was between 1997 and 2014. Happy now? Lord Palmerstone
  • Score: -4

6:47pm Wed 5 Mar 14

Lord Palmerstone says...

2010 - ed
2010 - ed Lord Palmerstone
  • Score: -4

8:02pm Wed 5 Mar 14

Oxonian says...

Lord Palmerstone,

I'm sure that this poor man's GP was a better judge of his condition than you are, and sounds like a more compassionate person than you seem to be with your rant about "the dreary old anorak and bad breath brigade of lefties".
Lord Palmerstone, I'm sure that this poor man's GP was a better judge of his condition than you are, and sounds like a more compassionate person than you seem to be with your rant about "the dreary old anorak and bad breath brigade of lefties". Oxonian
  • Score: 5

7:24am Thu 6 Mar 14

Lord Palmerstone says...

I don't know his GP's politics so I can't comment. If you know His GP Nicolas Ward is not a socialist then you are clearly right. If you don't then you'll have to agree with me that since socialism is a faith rather than a rational belief a socialist would feel morally obliged to respond in the manner displayed. No "rant" though I notice people of your faith love the word, alongside all their "isms" and "phobias"
I don't know his GP's politics so I can't comment. If you know His GP Nicolas Ward is not a socialist then you are clearly right. If you don't then you'll have to agree with me that since socialism is a faith rather than a rational belief a socialist would feel morally obliged to respond in the manner displayed. No "rant" though I notice people of your faith love the word, alongside all their "isms" and "phobias" Lord Palmerstone
  • Score: -6

9:49am Thu 6 Mar 14

Oxonian says...

So, if the man's GP is a Socialist, he is not to be believed. Very "educated"!
So, if the man's GP is a Socialist, he is not to be believed. Very "educated"! Oxonian
  • Score: 6

10:46am Thu 6 Mar 14

locodogz says...

Welcome back Lord P, personally I've missed your myopic rantings.
Welcome back Lord P, personally I've missed your myopic rantings. locodogz
  • Score: 1

4:00pm Thu 6 Mar 14

Lord Palmerstone says...

Actually a setback like this would be horrible for a vulnerable man. So, yes, , having thought during the day I think you're right, LD and Oxo. getting people back their self respect by helping them into work is one thing but here Atos hasn't got it right. Doesn't nullify the project but a sad story.
Actually a setback like this would be horrible for a vulnerable man. So, yes, , having thought during the day I think you're right, LD and Oxo. getting people back their self respect by helping them into work is one thing but here Atos hasn't got it right. Doesn't nullify the project but a sad story. Lord Palmerstone
  • Score: 1

8:23pm Tue 25 Mar 14

Julie2020 says...

Dilligaf2010 wrote:
oafie wrote:
Despite what people might think and how the media portray them it is not the fault of Atos- who undertake assessments as required by the DWP.

This man needed appropriate health and social care! irrespective of what Atos might be doing.

This gentleman like many sick, fragile and vulnerable people are being failed by society and the governments plan/perspective that all the ills of this country are to be blamed on the poor sick and needy.
if the government started to collect taxes they are owed they would achieve far more than simply cutting the welfare needed to people.

We are now a country of have's and have not's, with a small percentage of people obscenely wealthy, we have an economy based on making money! with no concern for those that 'fall by the wayside and are unable to keep going on the corporation hamster wheel'. Until this government and country changes it's priorities things are only going to get worse.
Trust me, it is the fault of ATOS.
They undertake the assessments as required, as you said, but it's how they do them, and the results they pass to the DWP.
The letter I received from the DWP informing me that I'd not been awarded ESA, gave a breakdown of the assessment they based their decision on, it bore no relation to what was said by me at the assessment, the "Healthcare Professional" had reworded what I'd said, so as to make me appear fit for work.
Once the DWP had the facts, the decision was overturned, and I was awarded ESA.
I went along to my assessment with an open mind, despite what I'd heard and read, but having now experienced one of their assessments, and seen the results, I know how bad they really are.
Atos there medical assessments are a complete lie they lie about every thing you say ,I know serveral other people who have had Atos medicals and they just completely make up twist and completely lie its a well know fact that these so called assessments are just a complete joke ,every one who attends one will loose you have to appeal ,and every one I know including my self won appeals because of medical proof from doctors ,even my own doctor said its well know Atos are unprofessional and tell lies about disabled people just to get you off the sick ,
[quote][p][bold]Dilligaf2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]oafie[/bold] wrote: Despite what people might think and how the media portray them it is not the fault of Atos- who undertake assessments as required by the DWP. This man needed appropriate health and social care! irrespective of what Atos might be doing. This gentleman like many sick, fragile and vulnerable people are being failed by society and the governments plan/perspective that all the ills of this country are to be blamed on the poor sick and needy. if the government started to collect taxes they are owed they would achieve far more than simply cutting the welfare needed to people. We are now a country of have's and have not's, with a small percentage of people obscenely wealthy, we have an economy based on making money! with no concern for those that 'fall by the wayside and are unable to keep going on the corporation hamster wheel'. Until this government and country changes it's priorities things are only going to get worse.[/p][/quote]Trust me, it is the fault of ATOS. They undertake the assessments as required, as you said, but it's how they do them, and the results they pass to the DWP. The letter I received from the DWP informing me that I'd not been awarded ESA, gave a breakdown of the assessment they based their decision on, it bore no relation to what was said by me at the assessment, the "Healthcare Professional" had reworded what I'd said, so as to make me appear fit for work. Once the DWP had the facts, the decision was overturned, and I was awarded ESA. I went along to my assessment with an open mind, despite what I'd heard and read, but having now experienced one of their assessments, and seen the results, I know how bad they really are.[/p][/quote]Atos there medical assessments are a complete lie they lie about every thing you say ,I know serveral other people who have had Atos medicals and they just completely make up twist and completely lie its a well know fact that these so called assessments are just a complete joke ,every one who attends one will loose you have to appeal ,and every one I know including my self won appeals because of medical proof from doctors ,even my own doctor said its well know Atos are unprofessional and tell lies about disabled people just to get you off the sick , Julie2020
  • Score: 0

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