Council refutes ‘delaying tactics’ over Temple Cowley Pools

The Oxford Times: Jane Alexander, Save Temple Cowley Pools campaign member Jane Alexander, Save Temple Cowley Pools campaign member

CAMPAIGNERS wanting to buy the Temple Cowley Pools leisure facility have complained that council officers are jeopardising their efforts.

Oxford City Council were prevented from selling the site for six months after residents registered it as an Asset of Community Value.

The group have until October 7 to make a bid before that period expires and the council can put it on the market.

But campaigners have this week claimed city council officers had failed to provide vital information they needed for a business plan.

The city council has not set a price for the sale of Temple Cowley Pools, and is inviting offers instead.

Jane Alexander, Save Temple Cowley Pools campaign member, said the group had asked for commercial information relating to pool usage from the city council and from Fusion, the company which Oxford City Council pays to run the city’s leisure facilities.

That included where customers had travelled from, what services they used and how many people used it on a regular basis, she added.

She said: “But they have been deliberately dilly-dallying.

“It is a delaying tactic because they do not want to answer our questions.”

And she claimed: “The council is afraid that if Temple Cowley Pools stays open then it will pull people away from the new facility in Blackbird Leys.

“They have every right to turn down our bid once it is made but at the moment they will not even give an asking price.”

In an address to the full council on Monday, campaigner Nigel Gibson said: “Officers are not cooperating with us.

“How can we prepare a bid without this critical information?”

It is understood that the group was yesterday afternoon due to meet with council officials to more formally discuss their imminent bid to buy the pool facility.

But in Monday’s full council meeting, Cllr Mike Rowley, below, executive board member responsible for leisure facility contracts, denied officers were dragging their heels.

Mr Rowley said: “The campaigners have asked for a large amount of very detailed information and that is being supplied to them.

The Oxford Times:

“They will have it as soon as it can be gathered by officers.”

Council spokeswoman Louisa Dean added: “We have fully co-operated with and have already provided a considerable amount of information to them [the Save Temple Cowley Pools campaigners], to help them make their proposed bid.

“However, certain parts of the information requested, such as our confidential land valuation, clearly cannot be released to any bidder, while other operational information is commercially sensitive.

“While the council would be willing to release this commercially- sensitive operational information, we would only do so if it is protected by a non-disclosure declaration.

“Thus far, the community interest company has refused to give such a declaration.”



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Comments (13)

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11:26am Thu 17 Jul 14

Canismajoris says...

Really looking forward to using the brand new pool and facilities at Blackbird Leys. So are my two children who currently have lessons at dumple cowley.
Really looking forward to using the brand new pool and facilities at Blackbird Leys. So are my two children who currently have lessons at dumple cowley. Canismajoris
  • Score: 0

11:37am Thu 17 Jul 14

Andrew:Oxford says...

Surely, with all the signatures to the various petitions, SaveTCP CIC know the name and address of every single interested user and potential investor in their scheme? (Hopefully they are registered under the DPA!)

An NDA is absolutely normal in any commercial activity, why is SaveTCP CIC refusing to sign it off? Delaying tactic perhaps?

Just had a quick look at opensource company director records and note that there is still just one director of SaveTCP CIC. One 50-something white male to run a community scheme in the heart of a diverse community such as East Oxford. Come on Nigel. Don't just let the women do the donkey work, empower women with directorships too.
Surely, with all the signatures to the various petitions, SaveTCP CIC know the name and address of every single interested user and potential investor in their scheme? (Hopefully they are registered under the DPA!) An NDA is absolutely normal in any commercial activity, why is SaveTCP CIC refusing to sign it off? Delaying tactic perhaps? Just had a quick look at opensource company director records and note that there is still just one director of SaveTCP CIC. One 50-something white male to run a community scheme in the heart of a diverse community such as East Oxford. Come on Nigel. Don't just let the women do the donkey work, empower women with directorships too. Andrew:Oxford
  • Score: -1

11:38am Thu 17 Jul 14

oxford born & bred says...

So what?
What has your comment to do with this article?
Those who want to and can go to Blackbird Leys, will go there. I hope your children will enjoy the place.
For those who cannot or who find Blackbird Leys pool closed to the public when the Swimming Club hold galas there, might prefer to use Temple Cowley Pools and Gym, Sauna and Steam suite and Exercise Studio. Let's keep exercise facilities where everyone can use them!
So what? What has your comment to do with this article? Those who want to and can go to Blackbird Leys, will go there. I hope your children will enjoy the place. For those who cannot or who find Blackbird Leys pool closed to the public when the Swimming Club hold galas there, might prefer to use Temple Cowley Pools and Gym, Sauna and Steam suite and Exercise Studio. Let's keep exercise facilities where everyone can use them! oxford born & bred
  • Score: 3

6:07pm Thu 17 Jul 14

The New Private Eye says...

oxford born & bred wrote:
So what?
What has your comment to do with this article?
Those who want to and can go to Blackbird Leys, will go there. I hope your children will enjoy the place.
For those who cannot or who find Blackbird Leys pool closed to the public when the Swimming Club hold galas there, might prefer to use Temple Cowley Pools and Gym, Sauna and Steam suite and Exercise Studio. Let's keep exercise facilities where everyone can use them!
Exactly right, now just put your hand in your pocket and find the few £million to buy the land, and then the £millions a year to run it for Nigel, Jane and yourself to enjoy.
[quote][p][bold]oxford born & bred[/bold] wrote: So what? What has your comment to do with this article? Those who want to and can go to Blackbird Leys, will go there. I hope your children will enjoy the place. For those who cannot or who find Blackbird Leys pool closed to the public when the Swimming Club hold galas there, might prefer to use Temple Cowley Pools and Gym, Sauna and Steam suite and Exercise Studio. Let's keep exercise facilities where everyone can use them![/p][/quote]Exactly right, now just put your hand in your pocket and find the few £million to buy the land, and then the £millions a year to run it for Nigel, Jane and yourself to enjoy. The New Private Eye
  • Score: -2

8:15pm Thu 17 Jul 14

SaveTCP says...

Canismajoris wrote:
Really looking forward to using the brand new pool and facilities at Blackbird Leys. So are my two children who currently have lessons at dumple cowley.
You are very welcome to visit any facility you like - the Campaign is focused on keeping Temple Cowley Pools open. Disappointing that the new pool is costing all of us over £13m when it could have been done for under £3m. People should be asking why and challenging the Council to make better use of our money. Also disappointing that the site eats away at yet more of the extremely limited green space over in Blackbird Leys. If the latest Labour scheme to concrete everywhere between Grenoble Road and Abingdon comes to fruition the hankerchief will be all we've got there.
[quote][p][bold]Canismajoris[/bold] wrote: Really looking forward to using the brand new pool and facilities at Blackbird Leys. So are my two children who currently have lessons at dumple cowley.[/p][/quote]You are very welcome to visit any facility you like - the Campaign is focused on keeping Temple Cowley Pools open. Disappointing that the new pool is costing all of us over £13m when it could have been done for under £3m. People should be asking why and challenging the Council to make better use of our money. Also disappointing that the site eats away at yet more of the extremely limited green space over in Blackbird Leys. If the latest Labour scheme to concrete everywhere between Grenoble Road and Abingdon comes to fruition the hankerchief will be all we've got there. SaveTCP
  • Score: 4

8:23pm Thu 17 Jul 14

SaveTCP says...

Andrew:Oxford wrote:
Surely, with all the signatures to the various petitions, SaveTCP CIC know the name and address of every single interested user and potential investor in their scheme? (Hopefully they are registered under the DPA!)

An NDA is absolutely normal in any commercial activity, why is SaveTCP CIC refusing to sign it off? Delaying tactic perhaps?

Just had a quick look at opensource company director records and note that there is still just one director of SaveTCP CIC. One 50-something white male to run a community scheme in the heart of a diverse community such as East Oxford. Come on Nigel. Don't just let the women do the donkey work, empower women with directorships too.
As we are sure you know, A:O, personal information such as that on a petition can only be used for the purposes for which it was given. To do anything else with it would certainly be likely to breach the DPA.

If you really want to know about the reality of discussions between the Council and the CIC, why don't you come to one of the meetings and find out the truth rather than believe what you read in the media? You know where we are...

As to the purpose of the CIC, we are sure you are also aware that SaveTCP CIC is a not for profit organisation whose sole purpose is to submit a proposal to the Council to take over running Temple Cowley Pools. If you are worried about the balance, by all means become a member and express your concerns to the Director. But as part of the membership application, you will be asked what it is you do for the public good - working for the public to deliver health and fitness services they want and need, where they want and need them, is why the Campaign and CIC exist. We look forward to hearing what you do on your membership application - just email savetcp@gmail.com - we look forward to hearing from you.
[quote][p][bold]Andrew:Oxford[/bold] wrote: Surely, with all the signatures to the various petitions, SaveTCP CIC know the name and address of every single interested user and potential investor in their scheme? (Hopefully they are registered under the DPA!) An NDA is absolutely normal in any commercial activity, why is SaveTCP CIC refusing to sign it off? Delaying tactic perhaps? Just had a quick look at opensource company director records and note that there is still just one director of SaveTCP CIC. One 50-something white male to run a community scheme in the heart of a diverse community such as East Oxford. Come on Nigel. Don't just let the women do the donkey work, empower women with directorships too.[/p][/quote]As we are sure you know, A:O, personal information such as that on a petition can only be used for the purposes for which it was given. To do anything else with it would certainly be likely to breach the DPA. If you really want to know about the reality of discussions between the Council and the CIC, why don't you come to one of the meetings and find out the truth rather than believe what you read in the media? You know where we are... As to the purpose of the CIC, we are sure you are also aware that SaveTCP CIC is a not for profit organisation whose sole purpose is to submit a proposal to the Council to take over running Temple Cowley Pools. If you are worried about the balance, by all means become a member and express your concerns to the Director. But as part of the membership application, you will be asked what it is you do for the public good - working for the public to deliver health and fitness services they want and need, where they want and need them, is why the Campaign and CIC exist. We look forward to hearing what you do on your membership application - just email savetcp@gmail.com - we look forward to hearing from you. SaveTCP
  • Score: 4

8:28pm Thu 17 Jul 14

SaveTCP says...

The New Private Eye wrote:
oxford born & bred wrote:
So what?
What has your comment to do with this article?
Those who want to and can go to Blackbird Leys, will go there. I hope your children will enjoy the place.
For those who cannot or who find Blackbird Leys pool closed to the public when the Swimming Club hold galas there, might prefer to use Temple Cowley Pools and Gym, Sauna and Steam suite and Exercise Studio. Let's keep exercise facilities where everyone can use them!
Exactly right, now just put your hand in your pocket and find the few £million to buy the land, and then the £millions a year to run it for Nigel, Jane and yourself to enjoy.
TNPE - you seem very well-informed about how much it will cost to buy the Temple Cowley Pools site - almost as well informed as your media cousin. Perhaps we should all think whether it's better to spend over £13m on a new only 25m swimming pool, or keep a health and fitness facility that people want and need, where people want and need it?
[quote][p][bold]The New Private Eye[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]oxford born & bred[/bold] wrote: So what? What has your comment to do with this article? Those who want to and can go to Blackbird Leys, will go there. I hope your children will enjoy the place. For those who cannot or who find Blackbird Leys pool closed to the public when the Swimming Club hold galas there, might prefer to use Temple Cowley Pools and Gym, Sauna and Steam suite and Exercise Studio. Let's keep exercise facilities where everyone can use them![/p][/quote]Exactly right, now just put your hand in your pocket and find the few £million to buy the land, and then the £millions a year to run it for Nigel, Jane and yourself to enjoy.[/p][/quote]TNPE - you seem very well-informed about how much it will cost to buy the Temple Cowley Pools site - almost as well informed as your media cousin. Perhaps we should all think whether it's better to spend over £13m on a new only 25m swimming pool, or keep a health and fitness facility that people want and need, where people want and need it? SaveTCP
  • Score: 6

10:35pm Thu 17 Jul 14

Andrew:Oxford says...

SaveTCP wrote:
Andrew:Oxford wrote:
Surely, with all the signatures to the various petitions, SaveTCP CIC know the name and address of every single interested user and potential investor in their scheme? (Hopefully they are registered under the DPA!)

An NDA is absolutely normal in any commercial activity, why is SaveTCP CIC refusing to sign it off? Delaying tactic perhaps?

Just had a quick look at opensource company director records and note that there is still just one director of SaveTCP CIC. One 50-something white male to run a community scheme in the heart of a diverse community such as East Oxford. Come on Nigel. Don't just let the women do the donkey work, empower women with directorships too.
As we are sure you know, A:O, personal information such as that on a petition can only be used for the purposes for which it was given. To do anything else with it would certainly be likely to breach the DPA.

If you really want to know about the reality of discussions between the Council and the CIC, why don't you come to one of the meetings and find out the truth rather than believe what you read in the media? You know where we are...

As to the purpose of the CIC, we are sure you are also aware that SaveTCP CIC is a not for profit organisation whose sole purpose is to submit a proposal to the Council to take over running Temple Cowley Pools. If you are worried about the balance, by all means become a member and express your concerns to the Director. But as part of the membership application, you will be asked what it is you do for the public good - working for the public to deliver health and fitness services they want and need, where they want and need them, is why the Campaign and CIC exist. We look forward to hearing what you do on your membership application - just email savetcp@gmail.com - we look forward to hearing from you.
That was poorly planned wasn't it? If you'd thought ahead a little you could have had consent and a ready prepared database when it came to contacting potential investors and potential users.

No matter your protests a single director is definitely not a good idea for a corporate body. Whilst we spar on here and I wish Nigel no harm, all it takes is a single "mind the bus/bike/taxi!" or a spontaneous critical medical event and with no other directors the organisation is in limbo

Restricting SaveTCP CIC memberships to people who only work for "the public good" might not be an ideal business model though. Ok, you've got the police station opposite, the library and the health centre... But then you've got the 15,000 people who work between BMW & the Business Park - will you be turning people away on the sole discretion of a single director?

Isn't that going to severely limit the scope of your business model?
[quote][p][bold]SaveTCP[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andrew:Oxford[/bold] wrote: Surely, with all the signatures to the various petitions, SaveTCP CIC know the name and address of every single interested user and potential investor in their scheme? (Hopefully they are registered under the DPA!) An NDA is absolutely normal in any commercial activity, why is SaveTCP CIC refusing to sign it off? Delaying tactic perhaps? Just had a quick look at opensource company director records and note that there is still just one director of SaveTCP CIC. One 50-something white male to run a community scheme in the heart of a diverse community such as East Oxford. Come on Nigel. Don't just let the women do the donkey work, empower women with directorships too.[/p][/quote]As we are sure you know, A:O, personal information such as that on a petition can only be used for the purposes for which it was given. To do anything else with it would certainly be likely to breach the DPA. If you really want to know about the reality of discussions between the Council and the CIC, why don't you come to one of the meetings and find out the truth rather than believe what you read in the media? You know where we are... As to the purpose of the CIC, we are sure you are also aware that SaveTCP CIC is a not for profit organisation whose sole purpose is to submit a proposal to the Council to take over running Temple Cowley Pools. If you are worried about the balance, by all means become a member and express your concerns to the Director. But as part of the membership application, you will be asked what it is you do for the public good - working for the public to deliver health and fitness services they want and need, where they want and need them, is why the Campaign and CIC exist. We look forward to hearing what you do on your membership application - just email savetcp@gmail.com - we look forward to hearing from you.[/p][/quote]That was poorly planned wasn't it? If you'd thought ahead a little you could have had consent and a ready prepared database when it came to contacting potential investors and potential users. No matter your protests a single director is definitely not a good idea for a corporate body. Whilst we spar on here and I wish Nigel no harm, all it takes is a single "mind the bus/bike/taxi!" or a spontaneous critical medical event and with no other directors the organisation is in limbo Restricting SaveTCP CIC memberships to people who only work for "the public good" might not be an ideal business model though. Ok, you've got the police station opposite, the library and the health centre... But then you've got the 15,000 people who work between BMW & the Business Park - will you be turning people away on the sole discretion of a single director? Isn't that going to severely limit the scope of your business model? Andrew:Oxford
  • Score: -1

8:06am Fri 18 Jul 14

Geoff Roberts says...

Canismajoris wrote:
Really looking forward to using the brand new pool and facilities at Blackbird Leys. So are my two children who currently have lessons at dumple cowley.
Blackbird Leys suckz, Temple Cowley is the best!

Not really. I just thought I'd indulge in your childish little game for a moment.
[quote][p][bold]Canismajoris[/bold] wrote: Really looking forward to using the brand new pool and facilities at Blackbird Leys. So are my two children who currently have lessons at dumple cowley.[/p][/quote]Blackbird Leys suckz, Temple Cowley is the best! Not really. I just thought I'd indulge in your childish little game for a moment. Geoff Roberts
  • Score: 0

8:07am Fri 18 Jul 14

Geoff Roberts says...

Andrew:Oxford wrote:
Surely, with all the signatures to the various petitions, SaveTCP CIC know the name and address of every single interested user and potential investor in their scheme? (Hopefully they are registered under the DPA!)

An NDA is absolutely normal in any commercial activity, why is SaveTCP CIC refusing to sign it off? Delaying tactic perhaps?

Just had a quick look at opensource company director records and note that there is still just one director of SaveTCP CIC. One 50-something white male to run a community scheme in the heart of a diverse community such as East Oxford. Come on Nigel. Don't just let the women do the donkey work, empower women with directorships too.
50 something.
White male.
Donkey work.

Some stupid attempt at a smear.
[quote][p][bold]Andrew:Oxford[/bold] wrote: Surely, with all the signatures to the various petitions, SaveTCP CIC know the name and address of every single interested user and potential investor in their scheme? (Hopefully they are registered under the DPA!) An NDA is absolutely normal in any commercial activity, why is SaveTCP CIC refusing to sign it off? Delaying tactic perhaps? Just had a quick look at opensource company director records and note that there is still just one director of SaveTCP CIC. One 50-something white male to run a community scheme in the heart of a diverse community such as East Oxford. Come on Nigel. Don't just let the women do the donkey work, empower women with directorships too.[/p][/quote]50 something. White male. Donkey work. Some stupid attempt at a smear. Geoff Roberts
  • Score: 0

8:09am Fri 18 Jul 14

Geoff Roberts says...

Andrew:Oxford wrote:
SaveTCP wrote:
Andrew:Oxford wrote:
Surely, with all the signatures to the various petitions, SaveTCP CIC know the name and address of every single interested user and potential investor in their scheme? (Hopefully they are registered under the DPA!)

An NDA is absolutely normal in any commercial activity, why is SaveTCP CIC refusing to sign it off? Delaying tactic perhaps?

Just had a quick look at opensource company director records and note that there is still just one director of SaveTCP CIC. One 50-something white male to run a community scheme in the heart of a diverse community such as East Oxford. Come on Nigel. Don't just let the women do the donkey work, empower women with directorships too.
As we are sure you know, A:O, personal information such as that on a petition can only be used for the purposes for which it was given. To do anything else with it would certainly be likely to breach the DPA.

If you really want to know about the reality of discussions between the Council and the CIC, why don't you come to one of the meetings and find out the truth rather than believe what you read in the media? You know where we are...

As to the purpose of the CIC, we are sure you are also aware that SaveTCP CIC is a not for profit organisation whose sole purpose is to submit a proposal to the Council to take over running Temple Cowley Pools. If you are worried about the balance, by all means become a member and express your concerns to the Director. But as part of the membership application, you will be asked what it is you do for the public good - working for the public to deliver health and fitness services they want and need, where they want and need them, is why the Campaign and CIC exist. We look forward to hearing what you do on your membership application - just email savetcp@gmail.com - we look forward to hearing from you.
That was poorly planned wasn't it? If you'd thought ahead a little you could have had consent and a ready prepared database when it came to contacting potential investors and potential users.

No matter your protests a single director is definitely not a good idea for a corporate body. Whilst we spar on here and I wish Nigel no harm, all it takes is a single "mind the bus/bike/taxi!" or a spontaneous critical medical event and with no other directors the organisation is in limbo

Restricting SaveTCP CIC memberships to people who only work for "the public good" might not be an ideal business model though. Ok, you've got the police station opposite, the library and the health centre... But then you've got the 15,000 people who work between BMW & the Business Park - will you be turning people away on the sole discretion of a single director?

Isn't that going to severely limit the scope of your business model?
Sniping git.
[quote][p][bold]Andrew:Oxford[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SaveTCP[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andrew:Oxford[/bold] wrote: Surely, with all the signatures to the various petitions, SaveTCP CIC know the name and address of every single interested user and potential investor in their scheme? (Hopefully they are registered under the DPA!) An NDA is absolutely normal in any commercial activity, why is SaveTCP CIC refusing to sign it off? Delaying tactic perhaps? Just had a quick look at opensource company director records and note that there is still just one director of SaveTCP CIC. One 50-something white male to run a community scheme in the heart of a diverse community such as East Oxford. Come on Nigel. Don't just let the women do the donkey work, empower women with directorships too.[/p][/quote]As we are sure you know, A:O, personal information such as that on a petition can only be used for the purposes for which it was given. To do anything else with it would certainly be likely to breach the DPA. If you really want to know about the reality of discussions between the Council and the CIC, why don't you come to one of the meetings and find out the truth rather than believe what you read in the media? You know where we are... As to the purpose of the CIC, we are sure you are also aware that SaveTCP CIC is a not for profit organisation whose sole purpose is to submit a proposal to the Council to take over running Temple Cowley Pools. If you are worried about the balance, by all means become a member and express your concerns to the Director. But as part of the membership application, you will be asked what it is you do for the public good - working for the public to deliver health and fitness services they want and need, where they want and need them, is why the Campaign and CIC exist. We look forward to hearing what you do on your membership application - just email savetcp@gmail.com - we look forward to hearing from you.[/p][/quote]That was poorly planned wasn't it? If you'd thought ahead a little you could have had consent and a ready prepared database when it came to contacting potential investors and potential users. No matter your protests a single director is definitely not a good idea for a corporate body. Whilst we spar on here and I wish Nigel no harm, all it takes is a single "mind the bus/bike/taxi!" or a spontaneous critical medical event and with no other directors the organisation is in limbo Restricting SaveTCP CIC memberships to people who only work for "the public good" might not be an ideal business model though. Ok, you've got the police station opposite, the library and the health centre... But then you've got the 15,000 people who work between BMW & the Business Park - will you be turning people away on the sole discretion of a single director? Isn't that going to severely limit the scope of your business model?[/p][/quote]Sniping git. Geoff Roberts
  • Score: 0

7:25pm Sat 19 Jul 14

SaveTCP says...

A:O obviously cares deeply about the Save Temple Cowley Pools Campaign, since he makes so many suggestions about how we can raise money and organise ourselves (we'll ignore the implicit threat of harm to a single CIC director - we're sure it wasn't intentional). Shame he's not so forthcoming on how he is working to keep health and fitness facilities open, or in fact anything that might benefit the public. We look forward to him enlightening us at a Campaign meeting when he comes to apply for membership - public works certainly not obligatory, but to know so much about what has to be done A:O must be deeply involved somewhere.
A:O obviously cares deeply about the Save Temple Cowley Pools Campaign, since he makes so many suggestions about how we can raise money and organise ourselves (we'll ignore the implicit threat of harm to a single CIC director - we're sure it wasn't intentional). Shame he's not so forthcoming on how he is working to keep health and fitness facilities open, or in fact anything that might benefit the public. We look forward to him enlightening us at a Campaign meeting when he comes to apply for membership - public works certainly not obligatory, but to know so much about what has to be done A:O must be deeply involved somewhere. SaveTCP
  • Score: 2

3:32pm Wed 23 Jul 14

yabbadabbadoo256 says...

well the council are well within their rights to ask for "offers" it is an auction after all - highest bidder and all that!
well the council are well within their rights to ask for "offers" it is an auction after all - highest bidder and all that! yabbadabbadoo256
  • Score: -1
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