CYCLING CITY DAY 2: Queen Street offers new cross-city route (From The Oxford Times)

I suggest that before any more town centre concessions are made to cyclists they should prove themselves worthy by not cycling along Cornmarket Street during the prohibited period. In general a lot of cyclists seem to consider access restrictions and compliance with the Highway code to be for other people but not them.

"Oxford City Council wants to lift the daytime block on Cycling along Queen Street as part of its £800,000 Cycling City scheme."

So how much of the £800,000 would it take to make this happen -_-

"Oxford City Council wants to lift the daytime block on Cycling along Queen Street as part of its £800,000 Cycling City scheme."

So how much of the £800,000 would it take to make this happen -_-

Anyone noticed that pushing a bike uses up DOUBLE the space of when it is being ridden and the handlebars often bang into people, whilst when riding, it is much easier to control the ve-hi-cule? I know, I've been riding for over XX years, where the first X is a 3. :)

Go to Egypt or India, and they mix Lorries, Cars, Mopeds, People, Donkeys, Dogs and all else, with almost no collisions! Don't believe me, visit the Islamic district of Cairo.

I say open up both Queens and Cornmarket, but paint a cycle lane down one side so pedestrians steer clear.

A little common sense a day helps you work rest and live a less repressed lifestyle!

What is needed is good street design so that riders, walkers and drivers can easily see where they are meant to be and meant to go. It is the total absence of such signage that makes the existing routes, in Cornmarket and the Broad and around the Market difficult for all parties.

"SCRAPPING a ban on cyclists in Oxford’s Queen Street would help create an easier east-west route through the city, council bosses hope."....
......The frequency that I have to dodge cyclists, from both directions, when on Queen Street, I'm surprised to learn there's currently a ban in force.

There may be a ban on bikes using Queen Street - but that doesn't seem to be enforced.

Personally I would like a ban on cyclists riding up and down Cornmarket - they are a real menace on such a busy 'pedestrian' street. It really should be just pedestrians there - no cycling. But it has to be enforced and people fined for breaking the ban - otherwise why bother?

I would also like a reduction in the number of stalls and buskers on Cornmarket - they create congestion and don't really add to the quality feel of the city centre.

Does anyone from the council ever monitor these things? I very much doubt it.

Dilligaf2010 wrote:
"SCRAPPING a ban on cyclists in Oxford’s Queen Street would help create an easier east-west route through the city, council bosses hope."....
......The frequency that I have to dodge cyclists, from both directions, when on Queen Street, I'm surprised to learn there's currently a ban in force.

yet again, spot on! many use it anyway, so what will scrapping the current ban achieve? the same applies to cornmarket.

“We need to encourage more people to use their bikes..."

Oxford is twinned with Leiden, but has learnt nothing from this. Leiden, like all Dutch towns, has cycle paths along all roads. Why doesn't Oxford do the same?

I've cycled in lots of places in Holland and felt completely safe. Even, e.g. in the centre of Eindhoven during the rush hour. I wouldn't risk that here.

Jocelyn Ireson-Paine

“We need to encourage more people to use their bikes..."

Oxford is twinned with Leiden, but has learnt nothing from this. Leiden, like all Dutch towns, has cycle paths along all roads. Why doesn't Oxford do the same?

I've cycled in lots of places in Holland and felt completely safe. Even, e.g. in the centre of Eindhoven during the rush hour. I wouldn't risk that here.

Jocelyn Ireson-Paine

There's a fair bit of evidence to suggest that the police tolerate cycling offences on a day-to-day basis. This may be due to poor organisation. What they do is have the odd crackdown every now and then.

If all these people who don't like the cycling offences they see every day, actually challenged the people doing it - then things might be a little better.

Instead it often comes down to 1 or 2 of us who then look like grumpy old gits for doing so and the offenders just ignore it.

I am a cyclist, but I think allowing cycling in Queen Street is a very bad idea as it is a shopping street, full of pedestrians. The buses keep to a recognized line, but the bikes will swerve all over the place.

I would like to see more enforcement of the No cycling rule, not surrender.

Marking the roads sounds like a good idea, the risk that Sushila identified in the article is reasonable but the problem is that many cyclists and pedestrian's simply ignore the signs which makes them a waste of money. Mind you - I can say the same about traffic lights and speed signs which are often ignored.

I think they should go ahead, and have Queen Street as a shared space for pedestrians, buses, and now cyclists.

They can replace the no cycling signs with signs showing it's a shared space, giving first priority to buses (as it currently is, with pedestrians required to move if a bus is coming down the street), second priority to pedestrians, then cyclists should have 3rd priority, and have to give way to pedestrians.

The actual cost of replacing the signs would be around £400, but I bet the council would spend a HUGE amount of money on consultations and opinions...

At present, buses push cyclists wheeling their bikes to the side of the road, which is often congested with pedestrians especially half way along. A cyclist pushing a bike takes up the width of 2½ pedestrians, plus there's a pedal sticking out at toddler head height. And it's not not easy to control a bike (especially a loaded one) when you're pushing it.

Being ridden, a bike would travel down that street at the same speed as a bus can safely go, so the cyclist can stay in the middle without holding buses up. Plus the cyclist is going to be on the street for much less time.

A cycle lane might help, but equally might not. Cyclists and pedestrians tend to get territorial about 'their' space and feel that noone else should be on it. If cyclists on a cycle lane felt they were entitled to ride along it at 20mph it wouldn't help pedestrian-cyclist relations.

The lack of a safe east-west cycle route through the city is a major failing on the cycle network.

Oxford is at present only a 'cycling city' in the sense that a lot of people cycle. But the cycling infrastructure is still poor.

As a resident of Oxford City Centre for many years I personally don't see a need for cyclists to be in Cornmarket Street (save for crossing from Ship Street to St. Michaels).

*Pressed enter too early.
As for Queen Street, if you're going to have a bus route you may as well allow cyclists. Everyone just be vigilant.

So long as buses are allowed, there is no argument against cyclists.

We NEED more cycle infrastructure and we NEED to encourage people to use greener modes of transport. Less cars and buses and more bicycles. The people blatantly ignoring the cycle ban on Cornmarket and Queen street are really demonstrating how stupid the ban is and how important these cross town routes are for people. As it stands, legally, cyclists have to take massive detours around the city which is counter productive as most people using bicycles are not going to want to go miles out of their way when there is a more direct route. Plenty of planning and effort is spent on ensuring that the roads are usable by cars and buses but absolutely no effort is spent on ensuring there is suitable and safe cycle infrastructure for everyone including children to use.

The suitable and safe cycle infrastructure I'm referring to is the Dutch implementation of a dedicated, lights controlled infrastructure, separated from the road by concrete blocks to prevent cars and delivery vans from parking in it and also to prevent pedestrians from aimlessly meandering within it.

Kingston Road Crusader Ox2 6EG wrote:

_miek_ wrote:
We NEED more cycle infrastructure and we NEED to encourage people to use greener modes of transport. Less cars and buses and more bicycles. The people blatantly ignoring the cycle ban on Cornmarket and Queen street are really demonstrating how stupid the ban is and how important these cross town routes are for people. As it stands, legally, cyclists have to take massive detours around the city which is counter productive as most people using bicycles are not going to want to go miles out of their way when there is a more direct route. Plenty of planning and effort is spent on ensuring that the roads are usable by cars and buses but absolutely no effort is spent on ensuring there is suitable and safe cycle infrastructure for everyone including children to use. The suitable and safe cycle infrastructure I'm referring to is the Dutch implementation of a dedicated, lights controlled infrastructure, separated from the road by concrete blocks to prevent cars and delivery vans from parking in it and also to prevent pedestrians from aimlessly meandering within it.

And when we get rid of all the non natives and free up A massive amount of land as in holland then we will be able to do as you suggest. But whilst we do not even have room to swing a cat in this country your idea is pie in the sky.

What an utterly ridiculous comment. You should feel very embarrassed.

There's definitely a problem with east-west cycle routes - especially when street fairs block Broad St - so this seems like a sensible idea. Not sure about the execution, though, as there's not that much space when a bus is coming through.

There's also a distinct shortage of bicycle parking in the Queen St area, though again it's not clear where more could be fitted in.

I always notice when I go to Reading that a cycle route goes straight through the pedestrianised bit of the main shopping street and also the new Oasis shopping development by the river. Cyclists ride through all the time with no problems on either side, maybe the people of Reading are more tolerant of cyclists.

Captain J wrote:

Kingston Road Crusader Ox2 6EG wrote:

_miek_ wrote:
We NEED more cycle infrastructure and we NEED to encourage people to use greener modes of transport. Less cars and buses and more bicycles. The people blatantly ignoring the cycle ban on Cornmarket and Queen street are really demonstrating how stupid the ban is and how important these cross town routes are for people. As it stands, legally, cyclists have to take massive detours around the city which is counter productive as most people using bicycles are not going to want to go miles out of their way when there is a more direct route. Plenty of planning and effort is spent on ensuring that the roads are usable by cars and buses but absolutely no effort is spent on ensuring there is suitable and safe cycle infrastructure for everyone including children to use. The suitable and safe cycle infrastructure I'm referring to is the Dutch implementation of a dedicated, lights controlled infrastructure, separated from the road by concrete blocks to prevent cars and delivery vans from parking in it and also to prevent pedestrians from aimlessly meandering within it.

And when we get rid of all the non natives and free up A massive amount of land as in holland then we will be able to do as you suggest. But whilst we do not even have room to swing a cat in this country your idea is pie in the sky.

What an utterly ridiculous comment. You should feel very embarrassed.

I think it isn't a ridiculous comment from the crusador, Holland seems to have plenty of space beside their roads for cycle lanes, most of our roads run next to houses even on new developments leaving no space because of the overcrowding here, there is no getting away from that. I think that those posting on here comparing holland to us are ridiculous, much the same as if I were to compare Italy where cyclists get out of the way of cars or else. We are talking about the unique situation here in Oxford and nowhere else.

I was referring to the way he suggested that "getting rid of all the non natives" was the reason Holland has enough space for good cycling infrastructure.

Kingston Road Crusader Ox2 6EG wrote:

Dick Wolff wrote:
At present, buses push cyclists wheeling their bikes to the side of the road, which is often congested with pedestrians especially half way along. A cyclist pushing a bike takes up the width of 2½ pedestrians, plus there's a pedal sticking out at toddler head height. And it's not not easy to control a bike (especially a loaded one) when you're pushing it.

Being ridden, a bike would travel down that street at the same speed as a bus can safely go, so the cyclist can stay in the middle without holding buses up. Plus the cyclist is going to be on the street for much less time.

A cycle lane might help, but equally might not. Cyclists and pedestrians tend to get territorial about 'their' space and feel that noone else should be on it. If cyclists on a cycle lane felt they were entitled to ride along it at 20mph it wouldn't help pedestrian-cyclist relations.

The lack of a safe east-west cycle route through the city is a major failing on the cycle network.

Oxford is at present only a 'cycling city' in the sense that a lot of people cycle. But the cycling infrastructure is still poor.

Mr Wolff are you really that lazy that to cycle 20 sedonds along St Ebbes St and then cycle the parallel lenght of Queen St along Pembfoke St and then another 20 seconds North bound on St Aldates to get to Carfax causes you a massive pronlem? There is NO need for cyclists to use Queen St as the alternative route is safe and adds less than a minute to the journey time. Your argument reeks of the "I am saving the world so I should do as I want cyclist mantra" and also crushes the "I am a fit human being because I cycle argument" as you seem incapable of taking a 100 yard detour. When you compare that with the 3,200 yard (nearly 2 miles) detour motorists have to take because of the High St restriction it seems to me that you have no complaint.

How can this post have a -15 rating?? people are so stupid nowadays, a 2 and a half mile detour, because the council is crap and cant sort out traffic problems.

The whole of Oxford City Centre should be a oneway circle, from Longwall Street, through High Street, St Aldates OR QUEEN STREET, with BUSES ONLY allowed the opposite way. Oxford city centre is a joke of a city centre.

_miek_ wrote:
We NEED more cycle infrastructure and we NEED to encourage people to use greener modes of transport. Less cars and buses and more bicycles. The people blatantly ignoring the cycle ban on Cornmarket and Queen street are really demonstrating how stupid the ban is and how important these cross town routes are for people. As it stands, legally, cyclists have to take massive detours around the city which is counter productive as most people using bicycles are not going to want to go miles out of their way when there is a more direct route. Plenty of planning and effort is spent on ensuring that the roads are usable by cars and buses but absolutely no effort is spent on ensuring there is suitable and safe cycle infrastructure for everyone including children to use.

The suitable and safe cycle infrastructure I'm referring to is the Dutch implementation of a dedicated, lights controlled infrastructure, separated from the road by concrete blocks to prevent cars and delivery vans from parking in it and also to prevent pedestrians from aimlessly meandering within it.

Meik please stop peddling LIES. "Massive detours" and " Miles out of their way" LIES. The North/East/North detour not using Cornmarket St, is Broad St and Turl St to reach The High exactly the SAME distance. The North/South/North detour not using Cornmarket St involves George St, New Inn Hall St, Saint Ebbes St and Pembroke St, Southbound and Brewer St North bound, which is a massive 400 yards out of the way or about a minutes cycling. The West/East/West detour not using Queen St involves from The Station using Hythe Bridge St, George St, Broad St and Turl st, Eastbound an extra 200 yards, and west bound involves using St aldates, Brewer St, Saint Ebbes St and Queen St to reach New Rd (Queen St is NOT restricted to cyclists at this point in the road) granted this is a longer detour that would add about 55 seconds to the average cyclists journey. And finally there is also NO extra distance involved in the West/South/West detour not using Queen St. So whilst your comments are welcome, by imbelishing them with LIES any credible point that you may have made will just be ignored as well. Or maybe you were referring to Motorists who DO have to go miles out of their way due to not being able to use Broad St and The High.

I don't have a car and cycling is my only means of transport, but I am becoming ashamed to call myself a cyclist. I really hate all the ideas put forward by the cycling brigade.

I am perfectly happy to *push* my bike along Queen Street. Why do some cyclists behave as though they are welded to their bikes?

Pedestrians should always be put first.

Cyclists should be treated as a transport form in their own right rather than "wheeled pedestrians". I normally use specific cycling shoes which clip to the pedals to make my 18 mile bike commute easier - not far off welded to the bike(!) and no good for walking in. Given that buses are allowed on Queen street I don't see good reason for not allowing cycling, subject to sensible riding. You just need to position a policeman on the road for a random 30mins each day pulling over cyclists riding recklessly.

Danny A wrote:
Cyclists should be treated as a transport form in their own right rather than "wheeled pedestrians". I normally use specific cycling shoes which clip to the pedals to make my 18 mile bike commute easier - not far off welded to the bike(!) and no good for walking in. Given that buses are allowed on Queen street I don't see good reason for not allowing cycling, subject to sensible riding. You just need to position a policeman on the road for a random 30mins each day pulling over cyclists riding recklessly.

At last Danny, well done for telling the TRUTH. Cyclists do not want to be treated equally on the roads, they want special treatment. Maybe an insert in the highway code telling cyclists to do the opposite as to what is written within would suffice. P.S. If your shoes clip onto the bike, what do you do when you have to put one foot on the floor when stopped at a red light or in traffic, or even god forbid in an emergency?

I don't have a problem with pushing my bike through the pedestrianised parts of Oxford.

They are just too busy to allow people with insufficient common sense to be cycling through at what they deem to be an appropriate speed.

Clearly, lifting the restriction on this route would be advantageous to those who cycle in terms of both convenience and safety. Yes, in some directions the detour is not massive, but other’s it is not insubstantial. The key is that the detour routes often involve traffic-heavy roads (Hythe bridge st/st Aldates) and, most importantly, unnecessarily extended periods on other pedestrian heavy streets (turl st/broad st/ George st/new in hall st).

I feel it would often also be better for the average *pedestrian* if some of the cycle traffic were to be on Queen st for a relatively short period of time, (with the busses,) rather than unnecessarily having to tour the whole centre.

Of course possible negative impact on the pedestrian use of Queen st, an understandable concern. To get this right, the implementation would need to be carefully considered.

A few observations of mine:
1) Pedestrians and cyclists are generally aware of one another in Oxford. There are lots of streets that are effectively pedestrian/cycle shared use anyway, including Cornmarket and Queen st 6pm-10am, so it ‘s nothing new.

2) Queen st on a Wednesday at 3pm is not as busy as Cornmarket Saturday at noon. Perhaps the ban could remain for the busiest times (Saturdays maybe?), whilst opening up access thoughout the week

3) Some work probably needs to be done to more clearly signify the shared use of the road, for example, the Carfax junction is already a melee due to poor road layout and markings.

Whopper w/o Pickle Cornmarket St wrote:

Danny A wrote:
Cyclists should be treated as a transport form in their own right rather than "wheeled pedestrians". I normally use specific cycling shoes which clip to the pedals to make my 18 mile bike commute easier - not far off welded to the bike(!) and no good for walking in. Given that buses are allowed on Queen street I don't see good reason for not allowing cycling, subject to sensible riding. You just need to position a policeman on the road for a random 30mins each day pulling over cyclists riding recklessly.

At last Danny, well done for telling the TRUTH. Cyclists do not want to be treated equally on the roads, they want special treatment. Maybe an insert in the highway code telling cyclists to do the opposite as to what is written within would suffice. P.S. If your shoes clip onto the bike, what do you do when you have to put one foot on the floor when stopped at a red light or in traffic, or even god forbid in an emergency?

I just put my foot down but this is clearly not walking and when I have to stop I use my brakes and not my feet!? Pedestrians, cyclists, motorists, horseriders (in other words, *people*) all have a right to use the highways and byways of this country and an obligation to obey the law. Their treatment should depend on their respective requirements and virtues and the responsibility that goes with each form of transport reflects the potential harm they impose on the rest of society.

"A boy went back to Napoli because he missed the scenery ...
... now it's, Hey mambo, mambo Italiano ...
Just been on the streets of Naples - the scooters, pedestrians, cars, motorbikes all mix. Although everything is apparent chaos there stands a great respect for the pedestrian — all vehicles stop (or swerve) and do not complain.

I think many of us are too often think that motor vehicle drivers have some kind of divine right over roads. They were originally made for pedestrian and horse traffic.

I would encourage anyone to assert their pedestrian right and treat all Oxford streets as a pedestrian zone, where motor vehicles happen to be permitted as well.

Turn that deference to motor vehicles into defiance.

I think lifting the ban would be really dangerous to our tourist visitors who are not alert to looking out for bikes - especially when Queen Street is only one way for vehicles but two ways for cyclists between 6pm and 10am. Cyclists don't even cycle along there slowly. I live nearby and often either walk my bike through Queen Street if I'm feeling lazy or cycle down the nearby parallel streets if I've still got some puff left! No big deal to me. Surely, the current hybrid satisfies most cycling commuters?