Plea for cycle safety mirrors (From The Oxford Times)

How about telling cyclists that the flashy light on the side of a motor vehicle is not a christmas light, but an indication of intent to move in that direction. It is all there in the highway code CYCLOS. That is a move that costs nothing. CYCLOS need to obey the highway code, not to leech more of our tax money.

How about spending some of this money on educating cyclists. We waste thousands of pounds on all sorts of signs, painted lanes that cyclists ignore. All it needs is common sense.

I resent every penny spent on these lawbreakers.

LORD PETER MACVEY 0X2 6EG wrote:
How about telling cyclists that the flashy light on the side of a motor vehicle is not a christmas light, but an indication of intent to move in that direction. It is all there in the highway code CYCLOS. That is a move that costs nothing. CYCLOS need to obey the highway code, not to leech more of our tax money.

Strange, I was going to say just about the same.
Cyclists, and motorists, should be aware of the fact that if they can't see the driver, of the vehicle in front, in his side mirror, then he/she can't see them either, it's not rocket science.

Lawbreakers, M'Lord? Tell that to the family who lost a daughter to a cement lorry driver. He was found guilty.

Why do these stories always end up with the mighty motorist having a go at the cyclist? We're not ALL irresponsible, and of the three crashes I have had with cars not ONE was my fault!

I'm often a driver and sometimes a cyclist, so I can't share in the hostility of some comments because it would amount to self-hatred. Surely this deserves a try, and why not in Broad Street where a Chinese student was crushed by a bin lorry turning left at the lights? If the budget won't cover it, could they be sponsored by a bike shop or a pressure group such as Cyclox?

Worth a go yes, but there seems to be a big problem with cyclists in Oxford. Maybe I just pay more attention to it, though.

Just make is against the law to undertake vehicles unless there are separate, marked lanes. As a cyclist and driver, it always astounds me how many cyclists blithely undertake vehicles in traffic or around corners.

I can only assume cyclists who do it lack two brain cells to rub together to see how dangerous it is - personally I do not want to rely on other drivers to see me or passengers not to open their door, so overtake on the outside when it's safe and clear.

It would be cheaper than putting up massive, ugly mirrors at £120 a pop.

iklhik wrote:
Just make is against the law to undertake vehicles unless there are separate, marked lanes. As a cyclist and driver, it always astounds me how many cyclists blithely undertake vehicles in traffic or around corners.

I can only assume cyclists who do it lack two brain cells to rub together to see how dangerous it is - personally I do not want to rely on other drivers to see me or passengers not to open their door, so overtake on the outside when it's safe and clear.

It would be cheaper than putting up massive, ugly mirrors at £120 a pop.

Are drivers jealous when they're stuck in traffic and cyclists can squeeze through easily?

What about motorbikes filtering through traffic?

Personally, I'm starting to doubt those who choose to live in Oxford or Cambridge and then moan about cyclists, or are they no longer known as University cities where more cycles are used than any other random town?

Should this be implemented, it's quite likely that the mirrors will installed in line with the "standard council sizing" in mind (ie, all cars are no wider than a Morris Minor and no individual is taller than 5'8").

The mirrors will be knocked out of place by umbrellas, or result in facial injuries for taller pedestrians.

SteveOX4..is that the cyclists that squeeze up the inside of cars and scratch down the side and knock the wing mirrors??

We don't complain about all the cyclists - just those that don't look, cut in front of other road users, jump the lights, don't use lights etc. etc. etc. We have all met good cyclists, just not enough of them.

Where there is no marked cycle lane, cyclists undertake at their own risk, and it is up to them to anticipate a vehicule turning left.

Surely these mirrors should be funded by a cycling charity?

Ignoring the usual idiots above, who clearly arent really interested in road safety at all but just showing up their crabby, sad, ill-informed, ill-natured selves since they dont get out much (and what a horrid sight they are!), I do see there can be a problem at lights where there is an inside cycle lane but some lorries pull up on top of it and may not see a cyclists quite properly there to their left. Its worth an experiment -but money is terribly short and I would think a cycling group could put up the £150 or whatever needed. The real problem however is appallingly badly designed cycle paths throughout the city, they sent some dunce who'd never ridden a bike out with a paint brush and told him to pain green bits where he could find a space on the road, it would appear. Worse than useless and very dangerous at certain spots.

Lady Penelopee wrote:
Where there is no marked cycle lane, cyclists undertake at their own risk, and it is up to them to anticipate a vehicule turning left.

Surely these mirrors should be funded by a cycling charity?

Nice to see the usual suspects spouting their usual anti-cycling vitriol.

"I resent every penny spent on these lawbreakers."

I cycle, but don't break the law. Do I have to wait until every cyclist obeys the law to the letter before Lord Pete allows my tax to be spent on cycling facilities?

Of course, I'm sure he'd see the same logic applied to motoring, cancelling all road funding until all drivers obey the speed limit, stay out of mandatory cycle lanes, and don't run red lights?

"How about telling cyclists that the flashy light on the side of a motor vehicle is not a christmas light, but an indication of intent to move in that direction. It is all there in the highway code CYCLOS. That is a move that costs nothing."

That's fine as long as all drivers are perfect. The lorry that killed Svitlana Tereschenko at Bow Roundabout in London was not indicating.

"Just make is against the law to undertake vehicles unless there are separate, marked lanes."

I'm sure you realise that the proposed location for the mirror mentioned in the article is one where there already is a separate, marked lane. As it's the entrance to an industrial estate, there's a lot of left turning lorries here. I'm not convinced that these mirrors are a great universal solution, but they might well make sense at this particular junction.

I'm no longer shocked by lorries overtaking just before junctions - and pulling up along side me while I wait at lights. When this happens I either get off my bike or if there's not time I'm forced to cross the line so the driver can see me.

Anyway it does not matter who's at fault - everyone makes mistakes. The vast majority of cyclists who are killed are killed by lorries turning left. This measure is a cheap and effective solution to make our roads safer.

pdw_says

Maybe you havent posted here but can I ask you not to respond to 'Macvey' as it may make him think people are interested in what he 'thinks' and that would be a shame (and also a lie), wouldn't it?

"Are drivers jealous when they're stuck in traffic and cyclists can squeeze through easily?

What about motorbikes filtering through traffic?"

Motorcyclists already overtake on the outside, as I do on my push bike.

In the end, it's not about jealousy, it's just about taking basic, common sense steps to protect yourself. Are cyclists jealous because I could drive at 120mph in my car? Probably not, because that would be stupidly dangerous and if I crashed and was killed, I'd only have myself to blame. Same with cyclists undertaking lorries.

Sophia wrote:
pdw_says

Maybe you havent posted here but can I ask you not to respond to 'Macvey' as it may make him think people are interested in what he 'thinks' and that would be a shame (and also a lie), wouldn't it?

My sentiments exactly Sophie Luv.

Bartsimpson_uk wrote:
SteveOX4..is that the cyclists that squeeze up the inside of cars and scratch down the side and knock the wing mirrors??

Competent cyclists wouldn't do that.

Also good drivers would leave a space down the left hand side like they do on the Cowley Road.

Motorcyclists frequently ride inbetween two lines of traffic in the same direction, so technically they're undertaking traffic on the left.

SteveOX4 wrote:

Bartsimpson_uk wrote:
SteveOX4..is that the cyclists that squeeze up the inside of cars and scratch down the side and knock the wing mirrors??

Competent cyclists wouldn't do that.

Also good drivers would leave a space down the left hand side like they do on the Cowley Road.

Motorcyclists frequently ride inbetween two lines of traffic in the same direction, so technically they're undertaking traffic on the left.

No they are overtaking on the right, the correct manouvre. But when a CYCLO undertakes you smashing your wing mirror what can you do apart from catch them and rifle their pockets for the cost of the damage. They have no identification for you to pass on to the police.

SteveOX4 wrote:

Bartsimpson_uk wrote:
SteveOX4..is that the cyclists that squeeze up the inside of cars and scratch down the side and knock the wing mirrors??

Competent cyclists wouldn't do that.

Also good drivers would leave a space down the left hand side like they do on the Cowley Road.

Motorcyclists frequently ride inbetween two lines of traffic in the same direction, so technically they're undertaking traffic on the left.

No they are overtaking on the right, the correct manouvre. But when a CYCLO undertakes you smashing your wing mirror what can you do apart from catch them and rifle their pockets for the cost of the damage. They have no identification for you to pass on to the police.

Ok. Botley Road is a good example. When vehicles are held up at the traffic lights outside McDonalds, there are 2 lanes. One to go into Botley and the other to turn onto the A34, as I'm sure you know.

If I was to 'lane split' down the middle of the two lanes on a motorbike (to get to the front), like I sometimes do, I'd be overtaking correctly the line of traffic for Botley. But then I'd be undertaking the traffic for the A34 on the left side.

Actually, I'm not so convinced. Cagers seem to have no concept of using the correct lane there. When I'm heading to Botley there's always a couple of cars in the wrong lane and they indicate at the last second that they indeed do want to turn. The same when I head for the A34.

P.S. a 200+kg motorbike can cause more damage than a 15kg bicycle.

The current provisions for cyclists in Oxford are poor to say the least. It's all very well spending money on cycling schemes but they seem poorly thought out and hard to utilise. Saying that, i fully appreciate how difficult it is to retro-fit these type of systems to an existing infrastructure. Blank canvas places like Milton Keynes must be a cycling utopia!

At the end of the day, both cyclist and motorists need to take responsibility for thier actions. Easy to say, but impossible to police. It just grates me that every cycling story on here has the same old names spouting the same old nonsense.

These people should be made to cycle around Oxford for a week or so to get a fresh perspective. Things aren't always as clear as they may seem.

Bearing in mind that, in another post, commenters were adamant that St Giles is NOT a 20mph zone when there are signs everywhere saying that it is, then I doubt very much that many people will even see the mirrors.
And on another point, can anyone tell me why so many cyclists ride on the road rather than use the perfectly good separate cycle tracks such as along Marston Road? Do they prefer to "mix it" with the traffic and bounce in and out of potholes? It's normally the super-keen lycra-clad cyclists too!

Major Rhode-Werks wrote:
Bearing in mind that, in another post, commenters were adamant that St Giles is NOT a 20mph zone when there are signs everywhere saying that it is, then I doubt very much that many people will even see the mirrors.
And on another point, can anyone tell me why so many cyclists ride on the road rather than use the perfectly good separate cycle tracks such as along Marston Road? Do they prefer to "mix it" with the traffic and bounce in and out of potholes? It's normally the super-keen lycra-clad cyclists too!

Don't know about Marston Road, but on Botley Road (on the way out of town) there are bus stops in the pavement cycle lane, pedestrians can't walk in the correct lane, is quite bumpy in places etc. But the biggest issue is having to negotiate between several left turns into the various superstores. It is far simpler and safer to stay on the road.

In fact I think the best solution is to remove all pavement cycle lanes, narrow the pavements, and widen the roads and paint cycle lanes onto it.

The new scheme on Iffley Road is pointless. Cars park on the entire length of the new cycle lane, especially on weekends.

SteveOX4 wrote:
Ok. Botley Road is a good example. When vehicles are held up at the traffic lights outside McDonalds, there are 2 lanes. One to go into Botley and the other to turn onto the A34, as I'm sure you know.

If I was to 'lane split' down the middle of the two lanes on a motorbike (to get to the front), like I sometimes do, I'd be overtaking correctly the line of traffic for Botley. But then I'd be undertaking the traffic for the A34 on the left side.

Actually, I'm not so convinced. Cagers seem to have no concept of using the correct lane there. When I'm heading to Botley there's always a couple of cars in the wrong lane and they indicate at the last second that they indeed do want to turn. The same when I head for the A34.

P.S. a 200+kg motorbike can cause more damage than a 15kg bicycle.

Totally wrong mate. Cyclos have a lane and a button to push that gives then priority going into town opposite McD's. You are obviously one of the "blind" cyclos that cannot see the big sign that says "CYCLISTS PUSH BUTTON". DOH!.

Major Rhode-Werks wrote:
Bearing in mind that, in another post, commenters were adamant that St Giles is NOT a 20mph zone when there are signs everywhere saying that it is, then I doubt very much that many people will even see the mirrors.
And on another point, can anyone tell me why so many cyclists ride on the road rather than use the perfectly good separate cycle tracks such as along Marston Road? Do they prefer to "mix it" with the traffic and bounce in and out of potholes? It's normally the super-keen lycra-clad cyclists too!

Major, I am led to believe that most of those posting on here do not leave their pits for the entirety of their lives. How can two posters swear that they drive down St Giles and attest that it is 30mph? They should be nicked for careless driving if they cannot see the big 20MPH sign.

L0RD PETER MACVAY ox2 6eg wrote:

SteveOX4 wrote:
Ok. Botley Road is a good example. When vehicles are held up at the traffic lights outside McDonalds, there are 2 lanes. One to go into Botley and the other to turn onto the A34, as I'm sure you know.

If I was to 'lane split' down the middle of the two lanes on a motorbike (to get to the front), like I sometimes do, I'd be overtaking correctly the line of traffic for Botley. But then I'd be undertaking the traffic for the A34 on the left side.

Actually, I'm not so convinced. Cagers seem to have no concept of using the correct lane there. When I'm heading to Botley there's always a couple of cars in the wrong lane and they indicate at the last second that they indeed do want to turn. The same when I head for the A34.

P.S. a 200+kg motorbike can cause more damage than a 15kg bicycle.

Totally wrong mate. Cyclos have a lane and a button to push that gives then priority going into town opposite McD's. You are obviously one of the "blind" cyclos that cannot see the big sign that says "CYCLISTS PUSH BUTTON". DOH!.

I was talking about the other side. You're a complete idiot. I hope the Oxford Mail stop you from posting here permanently. Nobody likes you.

SteveOX4 wrote:

L0RD PETER MACVAY ox2 6eg wrote:

SteveOX4 wrote:
Ok. Botley Road is a good example. When vehicles are held up at the traffic lights outside McDonalds, there are 2 lanes. One to go into Botley and the other to turn onto the A34, as I'm sure you know.

If I was to 'lane split' down the middle of the two lanes on a motorbike (to get to the front), like I sometimes do, I'd be overtaking correctly the line of traffic for Botley. But then I'd be undertaking the traffic for the A34 on the left side.

Actually, I'm not so convinced. Cagers seem to have no concept of using the correct lane there. When I'm heading to Botley there's always a couple of cars in the wrong lane and they indicate at the last second that they indeed do want to turn. The same when I head for the A34.

P.S. a 200+kg motorbike can cause more damage than a 15kg bicycle.

Totally wrong mate. Cyclos have a lane and a button to push that gives then priority going into town opposite McD's. You are obviously one of the "blind" cyclos that cannot see the big sign that says "CYCLISTS PUSH BUTTON". DOH!.

I was talking about the other side. You're a complete idiot. I hope the Oxford Mail stop you from posting here permanently. Nobody likes you.

Steve, this looks dangerously wrong to me.

At the junction you're talking about drivers in the left lane are entitled to turn right. It doesn't mean they are in the wrong lane as you put it. The big sign next to the road, and markings on the road, clearly show the left lane as a straight on (to Botley) OR a right (to Swindon etc).

Driving your bike between the 2 lanes and going straight on sounds dodgy

It's a risk me and other bikers take quite often, but it seems safer than having someone turn off in front of you, especially if they indicate after beginning the turn.

In regards to road markings, the exit to turn right out of Seacourt Park n Ride is a death trap. The number of times I've been sat at the lights and seen car drivers turn into the wrong lane is ridiculous. They get confused and instead of turning right, drive forward for a bit and then pull into the outer lane, always just before a bus is about to come. Bus horns sound really loud now and it's scary!

SteveOX4 wrote:
It's a risk me and other bikers take quite often, but it seems safer than having someone turn off in front of you, especially if they indicate after beginning the turn.

In regards to road markings, the exit to turn right out of Seacourt Park n Ride is a death trap. The number of times I've been sat at the lights and seen car drivers turn into the wrong lane is ridiculous. They get confused and instead of turning right, drive forward for a bit and then pull into the outer lane, always just before a bus is about to come. Bus horns sound really loud now and it's scary!

If you are scared of a legal audible warning device from a bus. You should really consider whether you are a safe person to be on the road. Wanchai is correct.

I'm not sure, I only seem to see the thumbs up/down buttons when I'm at work, regardless of browser.

Maybe they're slowly testing & rolling the feature out somehow?

SteveOX4 wrote:
I was thinking of blasting the motorbike down Kingston Road at the early hours, i.e. now. But what's the point if you're still awake.

Never mind, might track you down during the day instead. You're such a nasty piece of work, and you deserve bad things to happen to you. I hope you get run over and killed/put in a vegetative state by a rogue cyclist next time you're in the city centre.

P.S. How many times have Newsquest banned you now?

At least I have decorum steven.

iklhik wrote:
Just make is against the law to undertake vehicles unless there are separate, marked lanes. As a cyclist and driver, it always astounds me how many cyclists blithely undertake vehicles in traffic or around corners.

I can only assume cyclists who do it lack two brain cells to rub together to see how dangerous it is - personally I do not want to rely on other drivers to see me or passengers not to open their door, so overtake on the outside when it's safe and clear.

It would be cheaper than putting up massive, ugly mirrors at £120 a pop.

'Undertaking' is not the same as 'filtering'.

Filtering is entirely legal.

iklhik wrote:
Just make is against the law to undertake vehicles unless there are separate, marked lanes. As a cyclist and driver, it always astounds me how many cyclists blithely undertake vehicles in traffic or around corners.

I can only assume cyclists who do it lack two brain cells to rub together to see how dangerous it is - personally I do not want to rely on other drivers to see me or passengers not to open their door, so overtake on the outside when it's safe and clear.

It would be cheaper than putting up massive, ugly mirrors at £120 a pop.

Re: Filtering. Many Advanced Stop Lines, have an entry point on the nearside near the kerb. This is a physical reminder to those who are ignorant of the Highway Code that filtering is legal.

Advanced Stop Lines (aka ASLs) are those coloured patches of asphalt with the painted outline of a bicycle that are often full of cars, taxis and motorcycles, (none of which should be there) . It's amazing to see just how many make frequent infringements of traffic Law.